The Hills' Hypnosis Sessions

Betty and Barney Hill Hypnosis Transcripts

                                    Hypnosis Session 1

                                     February 22, 1964

                                           Barney Hill

© Kathleen Marden 2023

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No part of this may be copied or published.

Betty and Barney Hill underwent ten hypnosis sessions (five each), separately, with amnesia reinstated at the end of each session. 

 Barney recalls the details of his trip and his private thoughts from the evening of September 18, 1961- September 19, 1961.  This includes his motel stay, his drive through Montreal, lower Quebec, Vermont, and the White Mountains of New Hampshire.  Barney has undergone a three-week long conditioning period to prepare him for Dr. Simon’s unique form of hypno-analysis.

This is the same method that Dr. Simon employed to gain a renowned reputation for in his treatment of World War II combat neurosis patients.  His work was documented in the movie, Let There be Light, directed by John Huston.  Dr. Simon did not believe that extraterrestrial craft were real. 

Prior to Barney’s close, consciously recalled encounter, he was convinced that the earth was not being visited by alien life forms. He hoped that Dr. Simon could provide a prosaic explanation for his extraordinary memories.  However, two hours of missing time, his conscious recall of turning off onto a secondary road, a strange roadblock, a red-orange orb on the ground, physical evidence of scraped shoe tops, a broken binocular strap, magnetic shiny half dollar size circles on the car’s trunk, and a breakthrough memory of creatures in the road had caused him in experience extreme distress. These memories troubled him so deeply that he was hospitalized with life-threatening bleeding ulcers.

 He hoped that through Dr. Simon’s expert treatment, his emotionally induced symptoms would recede, and his life could return to normal. He was a loving husband, a father of two sons, a veteran of WWII, a devoted church member, a civil rights leader,  community activist, and an employee at the U.S. Post Office. 

 As we begin this session, Betty and Barney have traveled to Dr. Simon’s office in Boston’s Back Bay. Dr. Simon was nearly at the end of a long, highly successful career. In fact, he had already retired when he agreed to see Betty and Barney Hill. Barney had been referred to Dr. Simon and Betty accompanied him to his consultation in December 1963. He accepted Barney as his primary patient, but Betty requested hypnosis as well. He interviewed the Hills and finally agreed to see each of them separately. To ensure that their memories would not be contaminated, he reinstated amnesia at the end of each session.                                                        

Barney’s first session begins:

 Dr. Simon: February 22, 1964. This will be the beginning of the examinations of Mr. and Mrs. Barney Hill under hypnosis with respect to a UFO encounter in the White Mountains of New Hampshire on September 19th and 20th, 1961. Now, Mr. Hill, we're going to proceed with the study of your experiences back in 1961. You understand that we're going to record all of this, and the recording will be mine.

 Later, the hypnosis recordings became the joint property of Dr. Simon and The Hills. Late in her life Betty gave the hypnosis tapes to me, the trustee of her estate, and asked me not to share them because they are protected medical recordings. I have used my discretion to release my comparative analysis of their statements in my DVD In Their Own Words. However, I have protected private information of a personal or sexual nature.

 Barney Hill: Yes.

 Dr. Simon: All right then, trance, Barney. Go deeper and deeper, deeper asleep…far asleep.  Deeper and deeper, fully relaxed, all muscles are relaxed…deeper and deeper-deeper asleep; deep asleep. When I touch your head, your right arm will become rigid like a bar of steel, rigid. It cannot bend or relax; very rigid. Now when I touch the top of your hand you will lose all sensation. You will not feel this pin, no pain whatever. Now as I stroke your hand the sensation becomes normal. The arm relaxes. You go deeper and deeper and deeper. Now you are in a very deep sleep. Your memory is now sharp, very sharp. You will remember everything, everything that has occurred; all of your experiences, thoughts, and feelings. You will not be anxious or distressed but you will remember everything, and you will tell me everything. I want you to go back now to your vacation in 1961 where you went to Montreal. Is that right?

 Barney Hill: Yes.

 Dr. Simon: Tell me in full detail all of your experiences, thoughts, and all of your feelings beginning when you left your hotel; were you in Montreal?

 Barney Hill: We did not stay in Montreal. We stayed in a motel in another city.

 Dr. Simon: Yes, where did you stay?

 Barney Hill: I can't seem to remember.

 Dr. Simon: It was near Montreal?

Barney Hill: It was approximately 112 miles from Montreal.

 Dr. Simon: Is there any reason that you can't remember it?

 Barney Hill: We arrived at night, and I did not notice any name at the motel.  

 Dr. Simon: Do you know what the city was?

 Barney Hill: It was out in the country. We had been driving from Niagara Falls, Canada.

 Dr. Simon: Keep right on. Tell me about your arrival there--everything that you remember.  And you will remember everything. 

 Barney Hill: In this small area we did not see any town marks and my car was making a lot of noise.  It was Betty's car that we were driving. I was driving the car. We stopped at a service station, and they told me the car had not been properly greased. So, they greased the car, and this eliminated this noise.  We then decide we could not continue to Montreal, and that we should look for a place to stay overnight. And that's when I saw this motel and did not pay any attention to the name. The thought that was going through my mind was, "would they accept me?" Because when they say that they were filled up and I wonder if they were doing this because I was prejudiced. 

 Dr. Simon: Because you were prejudiced?

 Barney Hill: They were prejudiced.

 Dr. Simon: Because you're a Negro?

 Barney Hill: Because I'm a Negro.

 Dr. Simon: You've run into that before I take it?

 Barney Hill: I have not actually ever run into being denied access to any place of accommodation.

 Dr. Simon: You just worry about it?

 Barney Hill: I do know this does happen and I was concerned because I was getting quite tired. This place… they immediately accepted me.  It cost us $12.00 for the two of us and we stayed overnight. 

 Dr. Simon: Did you express your concerns to your wife, and does she share them? 

Barney Hill: She does not share my concerns about this matter. 

 Dr. Simon: Do you express them to her, or do you keep them to yourself?

 Barney:  I do express them to her.

 Dr. Simon: Did you on that night?

 Barney Hill: I did not. I never express them to her when we are actually seeking a place.

 Dr. Simon: I see. All right, go on.

 Barney Hill: We had our little dog with us, and we were told that it was a nice little Dachshund-dash hound type dog and that we could have her in the motel unit. The next morning, we got up bright and early. There was a restaurant across the street, and we decided to eat breakfast. I had my favorite….ham, eggs…….coffee. We then are driving along this wide highway.  It’s a new road.  It’s a beautiful road.  It has four lanes in certain sections.  I am coming to Montreal, and I do not particularly like the thought of staying there. 

 Dr. Simon: Why not? 

 Barney Hill: It's a big city. There's much confusion. There are many trucks on the road.  There's quite an amount of traffic. I don't want to stay in Montreal with all of this traffic.  I have difficulty keeping the highway route number I want. And I approach the city from a different direction than I thought I should (have) on the map. There was a fork in the road, and I see a lot of children standing there on the mounds. And I miss the pleasant drive of the countryside. This is like coming into another big city. I never have liked driving in big cities. I pull over to the side and I ask Betty where are we? Can we see ourselves positioned on the map? And I see my mistake by this fork, and I had continued to the right when I should have made a very sharp left turn, which would have brought me into the city in a different way. Finally, I am in the city and I'm looking for St. Katherine's Street.

Dr. Simon: Why?

 Barney Hill: I had seen advertisements that St. Katherine's Street has many clubs and if we do intend to stay, we can possibly visit some of these clubs.

Dr. Simon: What are they? 

Barney Hill: They are nightclubs and I know this would be something different to see.  I notice on the small portion of the map of Montreal City how I can find St. Catherine's Street. (The Hills did not have a detailed city map) There's a robbery. A bank has been robbed and there is much confusion on the street.  I pull over to the side and I'm looking at the beautiful buildings and the girls that are walking down the street and I compare them with New York. The fashions are much superior to the fashions in New York City.  The girl's hair—the hair on their head is coiffured, they're stylishly dressed, and I'm enjoying looking at them.

Dr. Simon: Is your wife with you?

Barney Hill: Yes, my wife is with me.

Dr. Simon: And the dog?

Barney Hill: And the dog is with me. And I am parked by the side, and we are admiring the buildings, and we are both talking about the way the women are dressed, and how stylish Montreal is. I have to get back out into the traffic again, and I am reluctant to do this.  But I must do it. And I locate St. Katherine's Street and it's like any typical street.  Traffic is everywhere and I decide that we should find a motel if we are going to stay overnight. To my chagrin, all motels are located quite a distance—or to me a distance from the city. And we're riding around, and I'm lost. I see a few Negroes and I'm amazed.  I had not realized that there were Negroes in Montreal. I am quite a distance from the downtown section and all of the buildings are wrought iron-like stairways on the outside of the buildings. And I pull over to a service station and I ask how I can get back to my route. He doesn't understand me, and he suggests that I go around to the side to the men's room. He points in that direction, and I realize that he doesn't understand English. So, I put $2.00 worth of gas in the car and drive off. I locate a policeman directing traffic.

Dr. Simon: Why did you put $2.00 worth of gas in the car instead of filling it?

Barney Hill: I did not want gas.

Dr. Simon: I see.

Barney Hill: When I stopped to ask directions...

Dr. Simon: In other words, you felt you ought to repay them. Is that it?

Barney Hill: I thought I should do something. And I pulled over to the side and I asked a policeman how I could find, I keep thinking, Route 3 and he does speak English very haltingly with a strong accent. But he does give me the directions. I'm passing by a beautiful school. It’s a Catholic school. I see the priest out there. It has beautiful rolling grounds and it’s sitting up on a hill—a very beautiful school in Montreal. And again, I miss my turn to the right, but I'm not too concerned. I know I can continue straight and make another complete right turn and I'll be back on the street I want.

The cars are driving all over, and I think we want to get out of the city as quickly as possible. I make my right turn, and then I make my left turn, and I see my bridge that I want, and I get to the bridge. I pay a 25 cent toll and I leave the city.

I see signs…we are getting hungry. I am hungry. And the signs are advertising food. I cannot read it; it's in French. We decide to stop. We're out in the country. They have rest… not restaurants, but diners…roadside places to eat, but I decide the traffic is still too congested, and it's about the hour that most people are getting off from work. I want to avoid this as much as possible and put distance between me and the city of Montreal.  And so, I do not stop at these places.  I know it is approximately an hour later I stop in a very quiet roadside spot.  It's a typical spot.  You just walk there up to a ……I've got the picture in my mind…….It's just hard to explain it. It's just a roadside stand. They do not speak any English and they think my wife is French. They try to find out is she is French, and they seem it is puzzling that she cannot understand them. But finally, we do get a hot dog and go out around the side of the house, of this roadside stand. I take the little dog out of the car and feed her bits of the food. She's happy to walk around and wag her tail. It is about 5:30 and I want to be on my way.

 Dr. Simon: Is it 5:30 in the morning or in the evening?

 Barney Hill: In the evening. I plan to travel as far as I can, and if I'm too tired, we'll stop in New Hampshire in the mountains, and if I am not too tired, we will continue on to Portsmouth.

Then I see many places that are selling apples.  There are apples everywhere and I want to stop and get a………I say I'll stop at the next place because I am making such good traveling distance, time. But I don't stop, and I see huge mountains, and I think that I'm going to have to drive through all of these mountains because even when I get to New Hampshire, I will be in mountain areas, and I don't like that.

 Dr. Simon: Do you fear mountains, do you or what?

 Barney Hill: I don't fear mountains. Usually, mountains are desolate and it's difficult to find a place to stay.  I'm concerned that I want to get past the mountains. There were only farms. I see a beautiful small city; it's not a city. It's a resort. I am not too tired to stop, yet I think when I check my map, this would not be a bad place to stop and to continue to drive to Portsmouth the next morning. But I drive past. This used to be typical, but since I have been married to Betty I stop whenever she asks me to.  When I drive by myself any distance I keep wanting to stop at the next restaurant, the next diner, the next gas station, but I'm driving fast, and I don't stop. I go through this resort town.  I make… it's a puzzling place. I see where I want to go.  It doesn't look like what it should look like on my map. I continue. It's a narrow type of road in this city. Cars are coming in both directions and finally I pass that. I'm glad.

It's getting dark. I know I can reach Vermont on Route 114, and then it is a short distance to New Hampshire. The countryside is very quiet, a house, and I keep thinking if anything happened could I go up to any of these houses and make my wishes known?  If I would need assistance and I keep thinking how friendly the houses look.

 Dr. Simon: How do the houses look?

 Barney Hill: Friendly. And I keep driving. I am concerned about going through Customs.  

 Dr. Simon: Why?

 Barney Hill: I have a gun in the trunk of the car.

 Dr. Simon: What sort of gun?

Barney Hill: It's a 32 pistol and it is hidden in the well of the trunk of the car with the trunk mat over it. Why did I do this?  Why did I bring this gun?  I know it is that I believe in the hostility of white people, particularly when there is an interracial couple. And yet, I could not get to the gun if any hostility did occur. 

Dr. Simon: Had you hidden it there when you took it up with you, in the same place?

Barney Hill. Yes, I left Portsmouth in the morning, about 5 o'clock. It was dark and I secreted the gun in the trunk. 

Dr. Simon: Go on. It is all sharp and clear.

Barney Hill: The Canadian Customs building did not look at my car; just the dog and we had papers proving that we had brought the dog into Canada. And he waved us on pleasantly, but the American Customs asked me to open the trunk and he looked at our equipment and he said, "What is this?" and I said, “Many times when we are on the highway we will stop and cook our food.  This is our cooking equipment.” He said, "A good idea, and I hope your trip was pleasant” and he waved us on.  It was humorous because he asked my wife repeatedly where she was born, but when I said I was born in Virginia, he accepted this without any further questioning, and I could tell that I had no trouble getting past customs whenever I am in Canada.

Dr. Simon: Was this your first trip to Canada?

 Barney Hill: I had been to Canada in 1954 with my two boys and their mother by my previous marriage and we entered into America in (*unintelligible), New York.  My eyes keep wanting to open.

Dr. Simon: Why?

Barney Hill: I don't know.  114…  It's dark, it's not a good road, but it's a short distance to New Hampshire, and I see the signs for Colebrook. It is welcome. I feel alert. I feel that my trip is over, and I am on Route 3, and I see Route 3 to the left, and the right and straight-ahead. And I become confused, and I realize I want to go straight, not to the left. And I decide to stop and look at the map and I turn around and I go back to a restaurant I had passed, and I park, and we go in.

There is a dark skinned woman in there I think dark by Caucasian standards, and I wonder "Is she a light skinned Negro or is she Indian or is she white?” (*She was a native American woman who had worked there for many years.) And she waits on us and she is not very friendly, and I notice this, and others are there, and they are looking at me and at Betty. And they seem to be friendly or pleased, but this dark skinned woman doesn’t, and I wonder if she is Negro, and she is wondering if I know and she is passing for white.

I eat a hamburger and I become impatient with Betty to drink her coffee so we can get started, and the clock on the wall says five minutes after ten, and I know we'll be in Portsmouth, I think by 2 o'clock.

Dr. Simon: Did you say just a while ago that it was one ten or one fifteen?

Barney Hill: Route 114. 

Dr. Simon: I see. All right.

Barney Hill: I am, I see very dark, there's no traffic and Betty has asked me to stop the  car and let Delsey out. Delsey is the dog.

Dr. Simon: Why is she named Delsey?

Barney Hill: I think that the people that owned her before called her Schultze and Betty called her Delsey, and this became her name.

Dr. Simon: I see. Go on. You stopped to take Delsey out.

Barney Hill: I keep going back to Canada. (*In his thoughts.) I stop in Coaticook, Canada.  And I decide to eat, and we go into… I cannot get close to the restaurant, so I park on the street, and we must walk to the restaurant. Everybody on the street, passing us by, is looking and we go into this restaurant, and all eyes are upon us. I see what I call the stereotype of the hoodlum with the ducktail haircut, and I immediately go on guard against any hostility, and no one says anything to me. And the waitress speaks very little English. We tap out what we think we want on the menu, and we are served.

Dr. Simon: Now, this other restaurant that you are in…where you had this dark-skinned woman. Was that in Canada?

 Barney Hill: That was in Colebrook, New Hampshire.

 Dr. Simon: Now how was it that you went back to Canada? Was this a memory you were having again?

 Barney Hill: I just went back. (*In his thoughts, not in person.)

 Dr. Simon: I see. Go ahead.

 Barney Hill: I went back because when Betty was telling me to stop the car, when we left Colebrook, New Hampshire, and we are now in the country part of New Hampshire, I was thinking of Coaticook and that I should get a hold of myself, and not think that everyone is hostile. Or rather, suspect hostility when there is no hostility there. And it was a very pleasant restaurant, and the people were friendly, and I wonder why this is so important to why was I ready to be defensive just because these boys were wearing a style of haircut?

 Dr. Simon: Tell me, did you actually go back to Canada from Colebrook or….

 Barney Hill: No, I was thinking of that when I was in New Hampshire, when Betty asked me to stop and let the dog go for a walk. 

Dr. Simon: Oh. Good. 

Barney Hill: That's when my thoughts went back.  And I think I will stop. I will stop. She's not squirming; she's still under the seat. And I don't see a spot to stop, and I have passed several places I could have pulled off safely from the main highway.  But, I say, “Well I will stop at the next one.” And I have not stopped, and Betty said, "Look, there's a star moving."  And I look and I see a star.  It's funny, but I say Betty, “That's a satellite.  We are seeing a satellite.” And then, I pull over to the side of the road and Betty jumped out on her side with the binoculars, and I got the chain, and I hooked it to the dog on her collar and say, "Come on Delsey. Let's get out." And she jumps out and I look toward the sky, and I look back at Delsey and walk her around to the trunk of the car, and I'm saying, "Hurry up, Betty, so I can get a look." And Betty passes the binoculars to me, and I see that this is not a satellite. It is an airplane. It is an airplane you can see…I think you can see the rows of windows, and it is an airplane. And I tell Betty this, and hand the binoculars back to her, and I am satisfied. 

The Hills' first observational stop by the Mount Cleveland Picnic Area

Dr. Simon: What kind of a plane was it? 

Barney Hill: I look, and it is to the right, and it does not go where I thought it would go. It does not go past me to my right shoulder. I think it will pass my right shoulder off in a distance to the north. I am facing west, and my right is to the north, and it does not go to the north. 

Dr. Simon: Does it have propellers? 

Barney Hill: I think, "This is strange." I cannot tell. I cannot hear a motor. I know that it has propellers. 

Dr. Simon: Was your engine running? 

Barney Hill.  My engine was running.  

Dr. Simon: How about the noise that it was making before you had it greased? 

Barney Hill: It was not making this noise and I did not pay attention to my engine running.  I was concerned that it would not cut-off, while I was standing there with all of the lights on to the car, and the battery run down. And I was concerned, and I looked at the exhaust and I could tell that the smoke was still coming from the exhaust. 

Dr. Simon: From the exhaust of… 

Barney Hill: My car. So, I did not concern myself too much after that. And this object, that was a plane, was not a plane. It was…Oh, it was funny.  It was coming around toward us. I looked up and down the road and I thought how dark it is. What if a bear was to come out and I returned to the car and say, "Let's go Betty. It's nothing but a plane. They're coming over this way. They've changed course. It is a piper cub." And I drive. 

(*Before Barney walked Delsey, he retrieved his gun from the trunk of his car because he feared the presence of bears in this picnic area.) 

Dr. Simon: A piper cub would have one or two windows in it, wouldn't it?  You said you saw windows.

Barney Hill: This is what I said. This is what I saw when I returned to my car…a piper cub. 

Dr Simon: You saw a piper cub.  

Barney Hill: I drive, and Betty is still looking, and she says, "Barney that is not a plane.  It is still following us." And I stop and I look, and I see it is still out there off in a distance. So, I search for a place to pull off the road.  I see a dirt road to the right of the main highway, and I think this one is a good place where I can pull off.  If any car comes it won't strike me.  And I get out of the car, and I am thinking this is strange, because it is still there and Betty said, I think she said…I am mad with her. I said I believe Betty is trying to make me think this is a flying saucer.  

Dr. Simon: All right. Let's stop right there for now. Until I speak to you again you will not hear any sound. You will be comfortable and relaxed. Rest comfortably until I speak to you again. (pause) You think Betty is trying to make you think this is a flying saucer. 

Barney Hill: I'm wondering, “Why doesn't it go away?” And I stop and I look again, and I see where it has gone up ahead of us on Canon Mountain, and I think when I get past the Old Man in the Mountain, it will be a good area to look to see this thing. I am going to report it. 

Dr. Simon: Do you still think it was a piper cub? 

Barney Hill: I am wondering if these pilots are military, and they shouldn't do that. They shouldn't do that. They will make a person have an accident by flying around like that.  And what if they drive at me? The military shouldn't do that. 

Dr. Simon: Was it a single engine plane? 

Barney Hill: I do not know. 

Dr. Simon: You still saw no propellers anywhere? 

Barney Hill: I saw no propellers.  

Dr. Simon: Was it light enough to see?     

Barney Hill: There is a light moving through the sky, and I hear no noise, and I think, “This is ridiculous and Betty it is not a flying saucer. What are you doing that for? You want to believe in this thing, and I don't.” And it still is there, and I wish I could pass a state trooper or someone. This is dangerous. 

Dr. Simon: What was the danger? 

Barney Hill: I am thinking of bathing in French Creek with my two boys, and this plane came overhead and dove straight for us and pulled up just a few inches from the state park. 

Dr. Simon: At French Creek? 

Barney Hill: In Pennsylvania; French Creek, Pennsylvania. 

Dr. Simon: Was that a piper cub? 

Barney Hill: It was a jet plane; a fighter plane and I feel it in my chest. The explosion when it went up in the air again and I feel like I'm bursting. I think of that, and I become angry with this plane that is flying around, that it might do that. It was a frightening sound—the boom. 

Dr. Simon: The jet that is at French Creek? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Now, if there is any sound from the piper cub, you can hear it now. 

Barney Hill: I can't hear any sound. 

Dr. Simon: No sound whatever? 

Barney Hill: And I want to hear a jet. Oh, I want to hear a jet so badly. 

Dr. Simon: Why do you want to hear a jet? 

Barney Hill: Because Betty is making me angry because she is saying, "Look at that. It's strange. It's not a plane. Look at it."  And I keep thinking, “It's got to be, and I want to hear a hum. I want to hear a motor.” 

Dr. Simon: How far away was it? 

Barney Hill: It was, oh it wasn't far. It was about 1,000 feet, I guess. 

Dr. Simon: A thousand feet? If it were a piper cub, do you think it would have been silent at that distance? 

Barney Hill: I do not. I know it is not a piper cub. 

Dr. Simon: How do you happen to know so much about piper cubs? 

Barney Hill: I thought it was a piper cub because I had seen piper cubs landing on the water at Lake Winnipesaukee. And I've seen them landing on the ice and I stopped my car and said, "Look, there's another one." And we enjoyed watching these planes. I knew I was in the mountain area where I had seen piper cubs flying, and I thought this was a piper cub. 

Dr. Simon: All right. 

Barney Hill: It was not. It was too fast. It moved too fast. It would go up and down and it could go back so fast. It could go away and come back.  

Dr. Simon: Did it go back and forth, or did it go in circles like a plane does? 

Barney Hill: It would go toward the west, and without looking as if it turned, it would come straight back. I think of a paddle with the ball on a rubber. You hit the ball and the ball goes straight out, and comes straight back, without a circle. And I think that only a jet could fly that fast, and I am hoping that I can find a good place where I can stop and really see this thing, whatever it is. I see a wigwam and I recognize this place and I feel safe. I am no longer in the barren hostility of this wooded area. 

Dr. Simon: What is this place? 

Barney Hill: It is Indian Head.  I have been there before and I feel comforted that I see a familiar place, and I think I won’t get a good look at this because Betty was very annoyed.  She was annoyed by telling me, "Look!" and I can't look; I have to drive the car. 

Dr. Simon: Did you think she was serious? 

Barney Hill: I knew she was serious. 

Dr. Simon: She was excited? 

Barney Hill: And I knew Betty only becomes excited, rarely. She does not get involved, like I do, emotionally, as quickly, so this angered me because I knew she was excited, and it would have to be something making her excited. 

Dr. Simon: You said you thought she was trying to make you believe this was a flying saucer. Had you talked about flying saucers? 

Barney Hill: No. We…had this ever? When?  Well, I think, Yes,  we talked about flying saucers, and no one said anything conclusive, except they might exist. Betty said she believed in them.  

Dr. Simon: She did believe in them?  

Barney Hill: I felt that….believed that ….it wasn't that important. I didn't believe in them. 

Dr. Simon: But she did. 

Barney Hill: Yes, Betty did believe in flying saucers. 

Dr. Simon: Did she have any reason for believing in them? 

Barney Hill: I am thinking of visiting her mother and father in Kingston, New Hampshire, and they live in a nice quiet area. Only three houses--her two sisters and her mother are located there, and at night you can look at the sky and you see millions of stars, and I think how beautiful this is. And we were talking about satellites. The Russians have sent up Sputnik and her father was talking about Sputnik, and you could see it there in this spot at certain hours.  We began talking about flying…….We did not talk about that. We talked about life on other planets. And then Betty's sister said she had seen an object flying; long and cigar shaped and smaller objects going to it and flying away from it. And I listened, and I did not criticize. I thought nothing. I just listened. And I was indifferent to the conversation.  So, we did talk about flying saucers. But I had not talked about flying saucers since 1957 when we were talking about Sputnik.  This was 1961.  

Dr. Simon: Well, we're back in "61" now.  And you are looking for a place where you can stop and look at this, and Betty has been constantly egging you on. 

Barney Hill: I want to wake up. 

Dr. Simon: You are not going to wake up.  You are in a deep sleep, you're comfortable, relaxed. This is not going to trouble you.  Go on.  You can remember everything now.   

Barney Hill: It's right over my right. God, what is it? And I try to maintain control so Betty cannot tell I am scared. God, I'm scared! 

Dr. Simon: It's all right. You can go right on and experience it. It will not hurt you now.  

Barney Hill: (emotionally upset) I, I've gotta get my gun!  (Screaming) Ugh! Ugh! I've gotta wake up! (Screams) I gotta get my gun! (Frantic screaming while Dr. Simon reassures him that is all right. Barney cries and pleads)  Oh, Lord! 

Dr. Simon: All right. Go to sleep. Calm now. Relax, deeply relax. Deeply relaxed. You will not have to make any outcry.  But you can remember it now.  Keep remembering.  You feel you have to get your gun. 

Barney Hill: (Barely audible) Yes. 

Dr. Simon: It’s going to harm you, you felt.  

Barney Hill: I open the trunk of my car and I get it and I get back in the car.  (Becoming upset) 

(*This is a false memory. Barney retrieved his gun from the trunk of the car during his first stop near Twin Mountain, when he feared the presence of bears in his vicinity, while he walked the dog. He took his gun from the car seat and placed it in his pocket. For clarification, see hypnosis session 6.) 

Dr. Simon: All right.  Keep reasonably calm.  

Barney Hill:  (whimpering) I put it in my coat and then I go out with the binoculars, and then it is there, and I look. I look and it's just overhead, and I think I'm not afraid. I'll shoot it down. I'm not afraid. And I walk out, and I walk across the road. (Shrieking) Oh, there it is, up there. Oh, God damn it! Oh! 

Dr. Simon: Calm down. It's there. You've seen it. It's not going to hurt you. Go on. 

Barney Hill: Why doesn't it go away?  Look at it.  (Whining.  Nearly unintelligible) There's a man.  Heeeeee……(breaks down) Is he a captain? What is he? He's gonna look at me.  

Dr. Simon: Just a minute.  Let's go back a little bit now.  You say there….Did you say it was a thousand feet away? A thousand yards? 

Barney Hill: It doesn't look that far. It's very big and it's not that far. And I can see it tilted toward me. 

Dr. Simon: What does it look like now? When it tilted, did you see wings? 

Barney Hill: It looks like a big, big pancake with windows and rows of windows and lights, not lights, just like one big light. 

Dr. Simon: Rows of windows like a commercial plane?  

Barney Hill: Rows of windows. They're not like a commercial plane because they curve around to the sides of this pancake, and I say, "My God no."  I have to shake my head. I got, I got…. This can't be true. This isn't there. Oh, it's still there. And I look up and down the road. Can't somebody come and tell me that this isn't there. It can't be. And…. 

Dr. Simon: You're still asleep but you can see it all clearly.  

Barney Hill: It's there. 

Dr Simon: You're sure? It's there? 

Barney Hill: Yuh. 

Dr. Simon: You weren't having a dream? 

Barney Hill: It's there. 

Dr. Simon: You'd had no sleep that evening? 

Barney Hill: I touch my right arm. It's not my right. It's my left arm. And then I touch my right arm or is it my left arm? I'm confused.  

Dr. Simon: It's clearer now. You're relaxed. 

Barney Hill: It's still there. If I let my binoculars fall and dangle from my neck, and then start over again, maybe it won't be there. But it is. Why! What do they want? (Exclaims) What do they want? One person looks friendly. He's friendly looking and he's looking at me over his right shoulder. He's smiling. 

Dr. Simon: Could you see him clearly? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr Simon: What is his face like? What does he look like? 

Barney Hill: Its round. I think of a red-headed Irishman. I don't know why. Oh, I think I know why. Because the Irish are usually hostile to Negroes, and when I see a friendly Irish person, I react to it by thinking I will be friendly. I think this one that is looking over his shoulder is friendly. 

Dr. Simon: You say looking over his shoulder.  Was he facing away from you? 

Barney Hill: Yes. He was facing a wall. 

Dr. Simon: You saw him through this window.  Or you said it was a row of windows. 

Barney Hill: The row of windows….There is a huge row of windows only divided by struts or structures that prevented it from being one solid window.  Or, then it would have been one solid window. And the evil face on the …looks like a German Nazi.  He is a Nazi. 

Dr. Simon: He is a Nazi. Did he have on a uniform? 

Barney Hill: Black. He had a black scarf around his neck dangling over his left shoulder. 

Dr. Simon: You pointed it out as if it were on you.  

Barney Hill: I never noticed that. 

(*Barney had a conscious recall of observing the non-human entities on the craft when he returned home on September 20, 1961. Betty mentioned their black shiny uniforms in her letter to NICAP on September 26, 1961. It is in NICAP investigator Walter Webb’s report as well.)  

Dr. Simon: He's got a black scarf on you think. How could you see these figures so clearly at that distance? 

Barney Hill: I was looking at him with binoculars. 

Dr. Simon: Oh. (Pause) Did they have faces like other people?  You say that one reminded you of a red headed Irishman. 

Barney Hill: His eyes were slanted. (Innocent wonder) I see it, so his eyes are slanted….   (Barney takes on a haunted tone of voice) His eyes were slanted. It was not like a Chinese.  Oh, I feel like a rabbit. I feel like a rabbit. (fearful) 

Dr. Simon: What do you mean by that? 

Barney Hill: I was hunting for rabbits in Virginia, and this cute little bunny went into a bush that was not very thick, and my cousin Marge was on one side of the bush, and I was on the other with a hat, and the poor little bunny thought he was safe, and it tickled me, cause he was just hiding behind a little stalk, which meant security to him when I pounced on him, and threw my hat on him and captured the poor little bunny who thought he was safe. It’s funny, I thought of that right out there on the road. I feel like that rabbit. 

Dr. Simon: What was Betty doing all of this time? 

Barney Hill: I, I, I'm not close to her. I don't know.  

Dr. Simon: You were out there by yourself? 

Barney Hill: I don't think of her. 

Dr. Simon: You don't think of her? Is she saying anything? 

Barney Hill: I can't hear her. 

Dr. Simon: Did you make any outcry to her, the way you did to me? 

Barney Hill: I… I… I can't remember. I don't know. I did not. 

Dr. Simon: You would remember it if you did. 

Barney Hill: I did not. But I know this creature, this leader is telling me something.  

Dr. Simon: He's telling you something? How? How is he getting it to you? 

Barney Hill: I can see it in his face. 

Dr. Simon: You see his lips move? Yes? 

Barney Hill: No. His lips aren't moving.  

Dr. Simon: Yes. Go on. He's telling you……. 

Barney Hill: He's looking at…he… and he's just telling me, "Don't be afraid."  I'm that bunny. I'm going to be pounced on! I think I'm safe. But he didn't tell me I was that bunny.  

Dr. Simon: What did he tell you? 

Barney Hill: “Stay there and keep looking. Just keep looking and stay there. And just keep looking. Just keep looking.”

Dr. Simon: Could you hear each other? 

Barney Hill: Oh, I've got to pull these binoculars away from my eyes. Cause if I don't, I'll just keep staying there. 

Dr. Simon: Could you hear him tell you this? 

Barney Hill: Oh no. He didn't say it. 

Dr. Simon: You felt he said it. 

Barney Hill: I know.  

Dr. Simon: You know he did. 

Barney Hill: Yes. Ya. "Just stay there." he's saying to me. He's talking in my head! 

Dr. Simon: All right.  

Barney Hill: I'm pulling the binoculars away.  (Pleading) God, give me strength! Pull them down! (Unintelligible screaming) Pull these binoculars down and run! God!  If there's a God, give me strength! I've gotta get away!  (Shrieking) Oh! Oh! I've gotta get away from here! 

Dr Simon: (Over Barney's shrieks) All right. Calm down. Calm down.  

Barney Hill: I've gotta get away! 

Dr. Simon: How could you be sure he was telling you this? Calm down. You're still asleep. 

Barney Hill: (Heavy breathing) His eyes. His eyes. (Crying) I've never seen his eyes before! Oh! Oh! Oh! 

Dr. Simon: But you said they were friendly. 

Barney Hill: Oh, no! Not the leader’s!  I said only the one looking over his shoulder was friendly.

Dr Simon: Oh, I see.  Only the one who was…How did you know the other one was the leader? 

Barney Hill: Because everybody moved.  Everyone was standing there looking at me.  But everyone moved to these levers or in the back to this big board.  It looked like a board.  And only this one with the black shiny jacket and the scarf stayed at the window. He was the only one. 

Dr. Simon: You say he had slanted eyes. What did that make you think of? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. I never saw eyes slanted like that.  

Dr. Simon: What was the difference between them and… yes, go on.

Barney Hill: They began to be round and went back like that and like that. And they went up like that.  Can I draw it? 

Dr. Simon: You want to draw it? I'm giving you a pad and a pencil.  You can open your eyes and you can draw whatever you want.  

Barney Hill: (Barney draws it) 

Do you want to let me see it?  Well now, which eye is that? 

Barney Hill: It's the left eye.  

Dr. Simon: The left eye. As you're looking at his left eye or…the left eye as you're looking at it? 

Barney Hill: As I was looking at it. 

Dr. Simon: As you were looking at it. Then it would be the same as your left eye.  In other words, they were slanted…This is where his nose is. Is that it? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: What is this curl here?  That's the other eye. What's that you're drawing? 

Barney Hill: That's the visor. 

Dr. Simon: The visor?  Was this a military hat he had on? 

Barney Hill: Yes.

 (*Barney perceived this headgear as a military cap, but the verified photos of ETs in my possession show technological headgear that might be mistaken for a military cap.)

Dr. Simon: Like one of our Army hats? 

Barney Hill: Like an officer's hat. 

Dr. Simon: Like an officer's hat.  

Barney Hill: That's his scarf. 

Dr. Simon: All right. Now you have completely relaxed. Go on with your story.  

Barney Hill: I'm driving. 

Dr. Simon: You've gone back into the car now? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: You took down your binoculars, did you? 

Barney Hill: I've got them down.  (*Forcefully to break the leather strap.) 

Dr. Simon: So, you got into the car.  Did you speak to Betty? 

Barney Hill: I'm getting a hold of myself. I'm saying, “Get a hold of myself….(Unintelligibly soft) I drive the car, and I told Betty to look out.  The object was still around us.  I could feel it around us.  I saw it when it passed by….the object……when I got into the car.  It was out there.  I knew it was out there.  Well, it's out there.  It's so weird. It's….(Unintelligibly soft) It's funny. 

Dr. Simon: Yes. Speak a little louder. 

Barney Hill: I know Route 3. Oh, those eyes. They're there in my brain. Oh please. Can't I wake up? 

Dr. Simon: Stay asleep a while longer. We'll get through this all right. We'll get through it all right. All of your feelings, tell me and it won't upset you so much. 

Barney Hill: They're there. Isn't that funny? I'm in the woods. That crazy dog. She stays in the car all of the time. Isn't that funny? She stays in the car. 

Dr. Simon: She doesn't bark nor do anything. 

Barney Hill: No, she just lies there. 

Dr. Simon: What about Betty? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: Doesn't she say anything? 

Barney Hill: No. (Distressed) I don't understand. Are we being robbed?  

Dr. Simon: What makes you think you're being robbed? 

Barney Hill: I know it's in my mind and I don't want to say it. 

Dr. Simon: Well, you can say it to me. You can say it now. 

Barney Hill: They're men, all with black jackets, and I don't have any money.  I don't have anything. I don't know. Oh, oh the eyes are there. Always the eyes are there, and they're telling me I don't have to be afraid. Is there an accident down the road? What's the red, bright red?  

Dr. Simon: Bright red? 

Barney Hill:  Yuh.  Orange red. 

Dr. Simon: And where is that? 

Barney Hill: Right down the road.  

Dr. Simon: Down the road. 

Barney Hill: I don't have to be afraid, but they won't talk to me. 

Dr. Simon: Who won't talk to you? 

Barney Hill: The men. 

Dr. Simon: In the vehicle? 

Barney Hill: No. They are standing in the road. 

Dr. Simon: There are men standing in the road? 

Barney Hill: Yuh, and they won't talk to me. Only the eyes are talking to me. I don't understand it.  The eyes don't have a body.  They're just eyes. I know. I know. It's got to be a wild cat up a tree. Yuh, that's what it's got to be. Oh, (laughs) I know what it is--the Cheshire cat in Alice in Wonderland. That's what it is. (Laughs) I don't have to be afraid of that. That disappeared too and only the eyes remained.

Dr. Simon: Then you didn't see this? 

Barney Hill: I saw it. 

Dr. Simon: You saw it. Are you still seeing this man? How about this vehicle? 

Barney Hill: The eyes are telling me "Don't be afraid."

Dr. Simon: That's the leader's eyes?

Barney Hill: I don't even see the leader. 

Dr. Simon: The other? 

Barney Hill: All I see are these eyes. 

Dr. Simon: The eyes now. 

Barney Hill: I'm not even afraid that they're not connected to a body. They're just there. They're just up close to me pressing into my eyes.  

Dr. Simon: And what's happened to this vehicle? 

Barney Hill: I don't see any vehicle. 

Dr. Simon: It's gone? 

Barney Hill: It’s there. No, it's not gone, but I don't see it. I'm just there. 

Dr. Simon: Where are you? Are you in the car? 

Barney Hill: No, I'm just suspended. I'm just floating around. Oh, how funny. I'm just floating. I want to get back to the car….Just floating.  

Dr. Simon: Were you floating about or is that the way you feel? 

Barney Hill: It's the way I feel. 

Dr. Simon: Are you still outside of the car? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: You're in the car. 

Barney Hill: I'm not in the car. I'm near the car. I'm not in the woods. I'm not on the road.  

Dr. Simon: Well, where are these men? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: Who were on the road? 

Barney Hill: I don't know.  (In amazement) I'm just floating about. O gheez, it's the funniest thing Betty….The funniest thing. I never believed in flying saucers, but I don't know.  Mighty mysterious. Yuh. Well, I guess I won't say anything to anybody about this.  It's too ridiculous. Oh yes, it's really funny. I wonder where they came from. Oh gheez, I wish I had gone with them. 

Dr. Simon: You wish you had gone with them? 

Barney Hill: Yes.  It's very (intelligible) to go to some distant planet. Maybe this will prove the existence of God. Imagine that, proving the existence of God on other planets? Were you scared? I wasn't. No, I wasn't afraid. It's ridiculous, just you and I talking about it.  Well, we're getting into Portsmouth a little later than I expected.  

Dr. Simon: All Right.  We'll stop there.  You will be calm and relaxed.  You will forget everything we have had this period together until I ask you to recall it again; you will forget everything we have done until I ask you to recall it again. You will not be concerned.  You will remain comfortable and relaxed.  You'll have no pains, no aches, and no anxiety.  Whenever I say "Trance Barney." you will go into a deep sleep and obey all of my commands.  You will recall what I want you to recall and what I tell you to.  You will forget what has transpired here until I ask you to recall it again.  You're comfortable and relaxed now. In a deep sleep. You have forgotten all that transpired in our session.  When I wake you, you will repeat exactly what you said and did when I woke you a few moments ago.  Be comfortable relaxed, no pains, no anxiety.  You will repeat as soon as I wake you, all that you said and did when I woke you a moment ago.  You may wake now. 

Barney Hill: Wow! Ten minutes after eight? Didn't you bring me in here at ten minutes after eight? 

Dr. Simon: Yes. 

Barney Hill: Where was I? 

Dr. Simon: You've been right here with me. 

Barney Hill: Where are my cigarettes? Was I about to reach for a cigarette? 

Dr. Simon: It looked that way. Go ahead and have one.  

Barney Hill: I thought I was coming in here and you asked me to take this chair. Then I was going to reach for a cigarette, but I never reached for it. Two hours…an hour and a half… 

Dr. Simon: So, how do you feel? 

Barney Hill: I feel fine. 

Dr. Simon: Do you know what happened here? 

Barney Hill: I believe that you put me into a trance. I know the purpose of it, but I don't know… 

Dr. Simon: That's all right.  We'll continue this next week, a week from today. Come up at eight o'clock again. 

Barney Hill: Eight o'clock next week. 

Dr. Simon: Both you and your wife. 

Comment  Dr. Simon: During the explosive parts of the patient's discussion, he showed very marked grimacing, twisting, tears rushed down his cheeks.  He would clutch his face and his head, and writhe in considerable agony. When he first drew the eye he makes scribbles in the air, which were the shape of the eye, which he ultimately drew.  He actually drew a curve representing the left side of the face and drew the left eye in it without any other detail.  When asked about which eye this was, in which he showed some confusion, he then drew the rest of the shape of the head, and also drew in the other eye, and the cap, and visor, and then as a sort of afterthought, he drew in the scarf.

Then Mrs. Hill was induced by post-hypnotic suggestion for reinforcement in anticipation of the time when she would be interviewed. She had been waiting in the soundproof waiting room during this entire period. 

© Kathleen Marden 2023

                                  Hypnosis Session 2

                                   February 29, 1964

 Barney Hill

© Kathleen Marden 2023

All photo and textual rights reserved under the Pan-American and International Copyright Conventions. 

No part of this may be copied or published.

Dr. Simon asks Barney detailed questions regarding his UFO sighting and subsequent capture by alien beings. He briefly touches upon part of the physical exam, the Hills’ arrival home, and the highly polished magnetic spots on the trunk of their 1957 Chevy. He attempts to find a prosaic explanation for each segment of Barney's experience, but Barney explains each point in greater detail, thus eliminating questionable areas of concern.  Ultimately, although he attempts to do so, Dr. Simon cannot convince Barney that he is drawing upon past experiences to confabulate a UFO abduction.  Barney discusses some of the physical evidence that leads him to conclude that his experience was real.  He has already undergone a powerful abreaction and is in cathartic state.   

Dr. Simon: Mr. Hill is now in the office. How have you been, Mr. Hill?  

Barney Hill: I've been fine. I've been upset. 

Dr. Simon: Tell me about it. 

Barney Hill: Last week, after I left your office, I began having what I thought was a remembrance of what had taken place in the office.  And this became quite disturbing to me. 

Dr. Simon: What did you remember? 

Barney Hill: I remembered eyes and that these eyes were telling me something. So, I became alarmed about this because I thought that my very sanity was in jeopardy.  As a result of it, I was strongly considering calling you after reaching home, but I did not, and my wife and I went out to visit some friends and that relieved the tension. 

Dr. Simon: Is that the only thing you remember? 

Barney Hill: Just basically, yes. About my trip, which I thought was very interesting, because I never thought about them before.  I had never given any thought to them, such as stopping in New York and buying a six pack of beer and Betty and I taking it to the motel.  I thought of how when we were told we could have the little doggie in I put her in the bathroom and tied her with a long chain because the bathroom was tiled.  In case she made an accident it wouldn't soil the rug.  These things seem to come back with…….. 

Dr. Simon: They seem to be things that you hadn't told me because I would remember that part.  I told you that I wanted you to remember everything, and these were things that you had skipped.  

Barney Hill: Oh, I see. 

Dr. Simon: When you were in your trance, you were told to remember everything. These seem to be somewhat irrelevant details, but you hadn't mentioned them.  You just mentioned them now, so maybe, you felt a little guilty that you hadn't mentioned them, all be it that they are probably irrelevant.  Speaking of that, how much had you drunk along the trip?  

Barney Hill: That was the only thing. 

Dr. Simon: That six pack? 

Barney Hill: That six pack. 

Dr. Simon: The two of you during the course of the evening? 

Barney Hill: No, we drank, we each had one can of beer that Sunday evening and then we retired, and we brought back the four cans. 

Dr. Simon: I see. You hadn't been doing much drinking on the trip at all. 

Barney Hill: No. So that would have been the amount of alcohol intake. 

Dr. Simon: Did your anxiety fade away as the week went on? About the eyes……..? 

Barney Hill: It more or less did.  Yes, it did. All I can think about is it seemed to become sharpened last night.  

Dr. Simon: You seem quite concerned about this experience.  You'll feel all right about it.  You don't have to worry about your sanity.  What do you think about this eye business?  What does it make you think of? Does it connect up with anything?  

Barney Hill: No, it doesn't.  It doesn't have………..Well, yes, I might say the only connection that it does have is a foreboding type of effect of betraying or having been given a warning.  This is the only kind of effect that it has on me. 

Dr. Simon: Do you mean that you have been given a warning? 

Barney Hill: Yes, this kind of effect. 

Dr. Simon: Have you ever had that sort of feeling before? 

Barney Hill: No, I've never had anything like that before. 

Dr. Simon: About hypnosis….Do you think that the eyes play a part in that? 

Barney Hill: Do I feel that it is necessary….? 

Dr. Simon: Do you feel the eye plays a part in your feelings about hypnosis? 

Barney Hill: No, I don't think so. 

Dr. Simon: Then, you haven't been too concerned about my eyes? 

Barney Hill: No.  

Dr. Simon: I see.  Well, you wanted me to take Betty and let you off the hook for a while. Is that it? 

Barney Hill: (Laughing) Well, that's what I thought. 

Dr. Simon: Do you recall the eyes as a part of the session we had?  Or is it just something that hung over with you? 

Barney Hill: Well, it seems like the eyes hung over what I did and said, while I was being hypnotized.  This is my intellectual……. 

Dr. Simon: Well, that was the last thing we got on to over the last Saturday. And I think that it probably did carry over and I'll see to it that you don't have that anxiety. So, we will resume.  You don't remember where we left off in your narration, so we will go back, and we can probably take some of that over again. Let's go back to a bit before the eyes came into the picture.  All right, trance Barney.  You are deeper and deeper and deeper asleep…….Fully relaxed….Deep and deep and deep asleep.  You are in a deep sleep.  You have no fear or anxiety and now you won't be troubled by anything you remember, although you will remember everything.  You will remember everything, all of your feelings and all of your actions.  But they will not trouble you now because they are here with us.  They will not trouble you and I'm here.  Your sleep is deeper and deeper.  Completely relaxed…….Deep asleep……..Far and far and far asleep….Deeply relaxed.  You are in a deep, deep sleep.  Deep asleep. Far asleep. Now you will remember everything that we have gone over about your trip from Montreal.  You will go back a bit before you had these experiences with the eyes, and you can begin to tell me again about the experience with the unidentified object.  You can start a little bit before we left off.  Wherever you feel that you are especially remembering something. 

Barney Hill: I'm remembering being in the woods, parked, and I have Delsey, and I'm walking her around the back of the car.  And Betty had asked me if I would let Delsey out.  And Betty is standing off to the left of the car with the binoculars and she is looking at this unidentified flying object.  I'm standing there looking up and down the highway because I have to relieve myself.  And I do this, and I give Betty Delsey's chain, and I ask her to let me see, and I can only see a plane flying in the sky, and I tell her this is a plane, and it's on its way to Montreal where we just left.  And I want to hurry and get back in the car and we'll start returning to Portsmouth.  And Betty gets into the car, and she says, "Isn't that strange."  And I am driving along, and she said, "It's still out there." And I look for another place to stop and I get out and I look again and I noticed the object is still there and I think it is strange…..that it must be a piper cub and it's not making any sound.  And I want to hurry up and get away because this is strange with this thing flying around.  And I am certain that……I believe very strongly that it also can see us.  It is a very dark night and I feel exposed. 

Dr. Simon: Had you finished urinating? 

Barney Hill: Yes, I had. 

Dr. Simon: So, you were not exposed physically. 

Barney Hill: I feel I'm in an exposed situation where my car lights are very bright and it's very dark where I am, and I know this object is flitting around in the sky.  I think of a fly flitting aimlessly in the sky with no pattern, as it is hovering over something it is about to light on, and I think that this thing out there is just hovering around.  And Betty is telling me to stop again, and I do.  I said, "Betty, what are you trying to do?  Make me think that I'm seeing something that isn't there?  And I became very angry with her because I believe this is a plane, something that can be explained, and I believe she is trying to make me think it is not.  And this irritates me. 

Dr. Simon: What was her reply to this? 

Barney Hill: Betty's reply was "Well why is it doing what it is doing?  Why isn't it going away?  What is it doing? 

Dr. Simon: Now, this isn't going to upset you.  This is not going to upset you, now.  You will be able to tell me.  You will tell me your feelings.  It will not upset you.  You will not be upset about it.  Go ahead. 

Barney Hill: I said, "Betty, it can't…"  I was thinking.  I did not say that to Betty.  I was thinking …….my mind was thinking……..I was thinking that cannot be a plane.  And that this is why I was becoming upset because Betty was telling me it wasn't acting like any conventional type of flying craft.  I somehow knew this and did not want to be told this. 

Dr. Simon: Did you feel that it wasn't acting like a conventional kind of flying craft? 

Barney Hill: Yes. I did. 

Dr. Simon: (Unintelligible) 

Barney Hill: It moved very peculiarly.  It did not fly in any definite straight line.  It would go up suddenly………. 

Dr. Simon: You mean just rise vertically? 

Barney Hill: Yes, it would rise in a very straight up position and then fly for a short…horizontally, and then would dip down.  And as it did this, I noticed the row of lights that was on it seemed to tilt and level off, even as I imagined the body of this thing…..that the position of the body of this thing would have been in.   

Dr. Simon: You mean as if it were banking? 

Barney Hill: As if it was banking. But banking doesn't seem to fit what I'm trying to describe. 

Dr. Simon: Um-huh.  Take your time.  

Barney Hill: Because if it banked, I could think of a plane and know it as a plane.  It just tilted.  It did not bank in a swooping bank.  It just…from a horizontal line, it just became a vertical line. 

Dr. Simon: How would you describe the shape of it? 

Barney Hill: I could not outline the shape. 

Dr. Simon: Well, an ordinary plane, even a piper cub tends to be somewhat cigar-shaped, even big helicopters. 

Barney Hill: Yes.  The rows of lights were like a row of lights in a cigar-shaped pattern.  Only that it was a straight line that I saw, and it was elongated.  

Dr. Simon: This thing wasn't ……didn't you surmise that this thing was round like a so called flying saucer? 

Barney Hill: No, I didn't see………. 

Dr. Simon: It did have some resemblance to an ordinary plane then. 

Barney Hill: At this time, yes. 

Dr. Simon: Do you imply that it changed its shape later? 

Barney Hill: Yes.  As I continued to look further down the highway, I had a peculiar feeling that it was spinning.  And I couldn't………… 

Dr. Simon: You mean like a top? 

Barney Hill: Like a top. 

Dr. Simon: Now, when you spoke of this before you spoke of some lights down the highway.  Red lights, I believe? Does that ring any bells? 

Barney Hill: Red lights. 

Dr. Simon: Or some lights down the highway as if men were working down there? 

Barney Hill: Yes, but that is further… 

Dr. Simon: Oh, later on? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Go on then, in your own way. 

Barney Hill: So, so…I continued to look, and I would stop, and I would leave and go and Betty would insist that I stop and we did this several times.  

Dr. Simon: Was this always to stop and look again? 

Barney Hill: To stop and look and when I can see the tramway mountain, far up ahead, I knew where I was.  And I knew I would eventually pass by the Old Man in the Mountain, and the object seemed to have speeded up, and go around the right side of Cannon Mountain.  And I was going around the left side at the base, and when I got to the where the Old Man of the Mountain figure was located, I stopped again and got a good look. And knew that this object seemed to still be out there, and it would stop when I stopped.  And I thought this is strange and it moved, or I did not see it move.  I started driving the car and Betty said, "It is moving behind the mountain once again."  And I was approaching a clear spot in which I saw two wigwams on my right, and I knew I was close to Indian Head.  And I saw this object far off, even as I approached this spot by slowing down and looking, and then I tend to look down the road to drive, and Betty became very excited.  She said, "Oh Barney, you must stop the car.  Look at what it is doing!"  And I speed slower in my driving, and I look through the windshield, and on her side.  The object looked as if it was right out there in front of the windshield, only I have to look up to see it.  And I must have been driving five miles an hour because I had to put the car in low gear so it would not stall.  And I said, "Oh this is funny." I thought of all these thoughts I had since I first saw this thing. I thought it's a piper cub.  I thought it’s an airliner.  I thought it is a military craft and these military men are having fun with us.  And I came to a complete stop, and I reached down on the floor of the car to my left and picked up the gun and put it in my pocket. 

Dr. Simon: You had already put the gun in there, from your trunk when you were concerned about it?  (He took the gun from the trunk at the first stop, at Twin Mountain.  For more details, see Hypnosis Session number 6.) 

Barney Hill: Yes.  And I put the gun in my pocket, and I got out of the car with the binoculars, and I stood with my arm on the door and my right arm partly on the top of the roof of the car.  And I looked, and before I could get the binoculars up to my eyes, even as I did get them up there and the car was vibrating from the motor running, I stepped away, and the object shifted in an arc.  And I thought, "How remarkable."  It was a perfect arc.  But it continued to have a forward look facing me as if it swung, and did not move from its position, but just swung from position with the front still facing me.  And it moved to my left, and I continued to look, and began walking across the highway, shaking my head and trying to blink my eyes.  Is this some kind of ……..something I could not explain?   And if I looked down the highway and looked back (I hoped) it would be gone, and I continued to walk across the highway toward the front of my car, down the road, and I continued to look with my binoculars.  Each time I would stop and look up, and then I would walk further toward it, and stop and look up.  I thought, “How interesting, there is the military pilot, and he is looking at me, and I looked at him.  And he looked at me, and there were several others looking at me, and I thought of a huge dirigible.  And I thought of all the men lined up at the window of this huge dirigible and they were looking down at me. Then they moved to the back, and I continued to look at this one man that stood there.  And I kept looking at him and looking at him.  

Dr. Simon: Is this the man you called the leader? 

Barney Hill: He was dressed differently.  And I thought of the Navy and a submarine, and I thought the men that moved back were dressed something like lieutenants. But this other man was dressed in a black shiny coat with a cap on. 

Dr. Simon: When you spoke of these hoodlums on your trip, did they wear these black shiny coats as hoodlums often do? 

Barney Hill: No. They did not. 

Dr. Simon: There was no resemblance between them and this leader? 

Barney Hill: No. These Canadian men in Coaticook were dressed in conventional dress, but their hair was in the duckbill style. And I thought of them as hoodlums because of their hairstyle. 

Dr. Simon: Let's go back now, with this leader. 

Barney Hill: I looked at him and he looked at me, and I thought this is not going to harm me, and I wanted to get back to Betty and begin discussing this interesting thing we were looking at.  And I kept looking at him and he looked at me. Then, I came back to the car and Betty, I thought, was flopping on the seat and I said, “Betty, were you excited?", and she said,"Why didn't you come back? I was screaming for you to come back.  I couldn't understand why you were going out across the road." 

Dr. Simon: You hadn't heard her screams? 

Barney Hill: No, I did not hear her scream.  I just thought she was flopping on the seat, but she said she had leaned across the seat so she would be closer to the open door, and holler for me to get back in the car.  

Dr. Simon: I see.  We'll stop here for just a moment, and you won't be able to hear anything that goes on here. Just rest quietly.  Feel comfortable.  (Dr. Simon stopped to check the recording machine, which seemed to have a buzzing sound and was behaving strangely.) All right Barney.  You may resume now. 

Barney Hill: I returned to the car and began driving down the highway. I drove, I think, a few miles and noticed I was not on Route 3, and I could not understand that, because it is a straight highway. And I looked and I was being signaled to stop, and I thought, "I wonder if there is an accident?  I do have my gun."  And I put my hand on it. 

Dr. Simon: Let me interrupt again.  What was it you saw down the highway? 

Barney Hill: I saw a group of men and they were standing in the highway, and it was brightly lit up as if it was almost daylight, but not day. It was not the kind of light of day.  But it was brightly lighted, and they were coming toward me, and I had not had any warning as I had driven down this road before I suddenly saw this brightly lighted area.  Or the area became brightly lighted, and they began coming toward me.  And I did not think after that of my gun, and I became afraid (that) if I did think of my gun, I would be harmed.  And if I did not, I would not be harmed.  And they came and they assisted me out of the car. 

Dr. Simon: Who assisted you? 

Barney Hill: These men. 

Dr. Simon: They assisted you out of the car? 

Barney Hill: I felt very weak.  I felt very weak, but I wasn't afraid, and I can't even think, being confused.  I am not bewildered.  I can't even think of questioning what is happening to me, and I am being assisted.  And I am thinking of the picture I saw many years ago, and this man is being carried to the electric chair, and I think of this, and I think I am in this man's position.  And I am not being carried to the electric chair, but I think my feet are dragging and I think of this picture.  I am not afraid.  I feel like I am dreaming.  

Dr. Simon: Are you asleep at the time? 

Barney Hill: My eyes are tightly closed, and I seem disassociated. 

Dr. Simon: Disassociated?  What do you mean by that? 

Barney Hill: I am there, and I am not there. 

Dr. Simon: Where is Betty through all of this? 

Barney Hill: I don't know.  I'm trying to think, “Where's Betty?”  I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: Are these men a part of your dream? 

Barney Hill: They are there, and I am there.  I know they are there, but everything is black.  My eyes are tightly closed.  I can't believe what I think. 

Dr Simon: No? Is there anything else you're thinking that you haven't told me? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Yes?  You can tell me now. 

Barney Hill: I am only thinking of mental pictures because my eyes are closed, and I think I am going up a slight incline, and my feet are not bumping on the rocks.  That's funny, I thought of my feet bumping on the rocks.  And they are going up smoothly, but I'm afraid to open my eyes because I am being told strongly, by myself, to keep my eyes closed.  Don't open them.  I don't want to be operated on. 

Dr. Simon: You don't want to be operated on?  What makes you think of an operation? 

Barney Hill: I don't know. 

Dr. Simon: Have you ever been operated on? 

Barney Hill: Only for my tonsils. 

Dr. Simon: Does this feel like that, at that time? 

Barney Hill: I think like that, but my eyes are closed, and I only have mental pictures, and I am not in pain.  I feel a slight feeling. 

Dr. Simon: You can stop there and rest for a moment.  You will not hear anything else. (Fixes tape recorder) All right, now you can go on. 

Barney Hill: I, I am cold.  My private parts feel cold.  And my pants are on, and I think my fly must be open. 

Dr. Simon: Stop for a moment now, again.  You think your pants are opened? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Has that any connection with the operation?  

Barney Hill: I'm not being operated on.  My fly is open. And I think I must have left it open when I was in the mountains. 

Dr. Simon: Go on, or you can stop now and rest.  You will hear nothing until I speak to you.  Alright, go on. 

Barney Hill: I am lying on my stomach, and I think, and I think of a doctor putting something in my ear. 

Dr. Simon: In your ear? 

Barney Hill: When I was a little boy, I had an ear infection……. 

Dr. Simon: All right, we'll stop there and take a rest.  You will hear nothing until I speak to you again.  (Pause) Now, we will continue.  You were speaking about how when you were a little boy the doctor put something in your ear.  Go on. 

Barney Hill: Dr. Harley put something to my ear, and I looked at it, and he explained to me that you can peek into the ear and light it up with this thing, and I think of that because I am on my stomach. And the doctor is pushing something in my rectum, and it feels like what I think went into my ear, and I feel that Dr. Harley did not pain me, and I will be very careful and very still and I will cooperate, and I won't be harmed.    

Dr. Simon: Yes, go on. 

Barney Hill: I can't remember. 

Dr. Simon: You were thinking about this when you were there on the road? 

Barney Hill: I was thinking about this when I was lying on my stomach. 

Dr. Simon: Where were you lying on your stomach? 

Barney Hill: I thought I was inside something, but I did not dare open my eyes.  I had been told to keep my eyes closed. 

Dr. Simon: Who told you that? 

Barney Hill: The man. 

Dr. Simon: What man? 

Barney Hill: The man that I saw through the binoculars. 

Dr. Simon: Was this one of the men in the road? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Well, who were these men in the road and what part did they play in all of this? 

Barney Hill: They took me and carried me up this ramp. 

Dr. Simon: They carried you up the ramp? 

Barney Hill: I know I was going up something and my feet were dragging, and this man spoke to me, and I knew I had heard his voice when he was looking at me, when I was in the road. 

Dr. Simon: This happened after you were in the road? 

Barney Hill: This happened after I was in the road in Indian Head.  I thought I had driven quite a distance from Indian Head when I got lost and found myself in the woods.  

Dr. Simon: Oh, you got lost after you left Indian Head.  Is that it? 

Barney Hill: I was not on Route 3, and I couldn't understand why. 

Dr. Simon: Was Indian Head before or after you saw this object? 

Barney Hill: I don't understand the question. 

Dr. Simon: Well, was it after you were at Indian Head that you saw this object? 

Barney Hill: It was at Indian Head that I saw the object standing in the sky, and it was after Indian Head.  I had driven several miles.  I think I have driven a lot of miles, and the road is not Route 3.  It is in a heavily wooded area, but it is a road, and this is when I am flagged down. 

Dr. Simon: You were flagged down? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: These men flagged you down? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: How many were there? 

Barney Hill: I thought I saw a cluster of six men because three came to me and three did not. 

Dr. Simon: How were they dressed? 

Barney Hill: I was told at that time to close my eyes, and I closed my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: But before you closed your eyes didn't you see them? 

Barney Hill: They were in dark clothing, and they were all dressed alike. 

Dr. Simon: Were they white men? 

Barney Hill: I don't know about the color, but they did not seem that they had different faces from white men. 

Dr. Simon: Were they in a uniform of any sort? 

Barney Hill: I thought of a Navy pea jacket just before I closed my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: Did they say anything else besides telling you to close your eyes?  Did they tell you why they were stopping you? 

Barney Hill: They didn't tell me anything.  They didn't say anything. 

Dr. Simon: Was there any vehicle around? 

Barney Hill: I didn't see any. 

Dr. Simon: You didn't see any vehicle? 

Barney Hill: I was told to close my eyes because I saw two eyes coming close to mine, and I felt like the eyes had pushed into my eyes.  

Dr. Simon: Was this the same eyes of the leader that you saw through the binoculars before? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Did you think it was the same man? 

Barney Hill: I didn't think of anything.  I didn't think of the man in the sky in the machine that I saw.  I just saw these eyes and I closed mine.  And I got out of the car, and I put my left leg on the ground, and two men helped me out, and I did not walk.  I felt like I was being supported and I did not go very far, I thought, before I was going up, and I was going up.  My eyes were tightly closed, and I was afraid to open them.  Or….that doesn't say what I mean. 

Dr. Simon: Well, try again. 

Barney Hill: I didn't want to open them.  I was comfortable to keep them closed. 

Dr. Simon: Were these men holding you? 

Barney Hill: They were by my side, and I had a funny feeling because I knew they were holding me, but I couldn't feel them. 

Dr. Simon: Is this what you meant the last time when you spoke of floating? 

Barney Hill: I felt floating, suspended.  I am thinking of getting out of the car and I had not thought that these men, when they helped me out of the car, I could not feel them.  And I only became aware that I could not feel them when we were going up an incline.  And then, I felt that I could not feel them.  Yet, my arms were up in a position of being supported.  My elbows were out, and I was moving.  But I was not walking, and I want to peek.  I want to look.  I want to look.  

Dr. Simon: Yes, this won't trouble you now. You can go on now.  You can tell me. 

Barney Hill: I open my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: You opened your eyes? 

Barney Hill: And I closed them. 

Dr. Simon: What did you see? 

Barney Hill: I saw a hospital ward, a hospital operating room and it was pale blue…sky blue, and I closed my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: Do you remember the operating room when you had your tonsils out? 

Barney Hill: It was in the Mercy Douglas Hospital, and I was in there because they thought I had appendicitis, and I stayed there for thirteen or fourteen….thirteen days. And I used to walk down the corridor and peek in the operating room, and I thought of that.  It wasn't when I had my tonsils out. 

Dr. Simon: Was that operating room blue? 

Barney Hill: No.  It was bright lights. 

Dr. Simon: Bright lights? 

Barney Hill: Bright lights like a bulb, but this room was not like that.  It was spotless.  I thought of everything being so clean, and I closed my eyes. 

Dr. Simon: Did you feel you were going to be operated on? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Did you feel you were going to be attacked in any way? 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: You said your fly was open and you felt your privates were cold. 

Barney Hill: I was lying on the table and my fly was open, and I thought, “Are they putting a cup around my private parts?”  And then it stopped, and I thought, “How funny.” I thought, “How funny.  If I keep real quiet and real still, I won't be harmed, and it will be over. And I will just stay here and pretend that I am anywhere, and think of God, and think of Jesus, and think I am not afraid.”

And I am getting off the table and I've got a big grin on my face.  And I feel greatly relieved.  And I am walking, and I am walking, and I am being guided and my eyes are closed. And I open my eyes and there is the car, and the lights are off, and it is not running, and Delsey is under the seat, and I reach under and touch her, and she is in a tight ball. And I sit back, and I see Betty is coming down the road, and she gets into the car, and I am grinning at her, and she is grinning back at me.  And we both seem so elated, and we are really happy.  And I am thinking it isn't too bad.  How funny, I have no reason to fear, and we look, and I see a bright moon and I laugh and say "Well, there it goes." (Chuckles) And I am happy. 

Dr. Simon: Do you mean that this object is going?  

Barney Hill: Yuh. 

Dr. Simon: It had gone. 

Barney Hill: It was going. 

Dr. Simon: Going…Did you still see it? 

"The Fiery Orb" copyrighted by artist David Baker

Barney Hill: It was a bright huge ball……orange.  It was a beautiful bright ball. And it was going, and it was gone, and we were in darkness. And I put on the lights of the car and looked down the road, and I saw there is a bend in the road.  And we began driving and I could see a slight incline, and then, I drove and came back to Route 3 because I was on cement road. And I thought, "Oh boy, if I could only find a restaurant and get a cup of coffee.  And Betty…and I feel…, I feel real hilarious…..a feeling of well being.  I feel great relief. 

Dr. Simon: What were you relieved about? 

Barney Hill: I am relieved….. I feel that I have been in a harrowing situation and there was nothing damaging or harmful about it, and I feel greatly relieved.  

Dr. Simon: And the flying object is gone? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: And it didn't come back? 

Barney Hill: Betty is giggling, and she said, "Do you believe in flying saucers now?"  And I said, Oh Betty, don’t be ridiculous. Of course, I don't."  And we heard a beeping, the car buzzed, and I kept silent. 

Dr. Simon: You heard a beeping? 

Barney Hill: It was a beeping, beep, beep, beep (Quicken pace) beep, beep, beep, beep. 

Dr. Simon: Was your car radio on? 

Barney Hill: No, my radio was not on.  It was so late, and I did not think I could get a station, so when I left Canada, I cut my radio off. I played my radio in Quebec because I thought it was funny, humorous to get the Canadian stations, and every word was spoken in French, and the music sounded different to my ears.  When I left Montreal, I became determined to drive home and I cut my radio off. I don't play my radio when I'm driving. 

Dr. Simon: Well now, these beeps…..you heard these beeps again.  Do they sound like some of the beeps you get on a radio where you have code signals, or what did they sound like? 

Barney Hill: Beep, beep, beep.  They sound like beeps.  That's all.  They sound like beeps. 

Dr. Simon: Yes, well what did you do?  What did you think about?  

Barney Hill: I thought it was strange.  The beep, beep, be, beep……, and on the first beep, I touched the steering wheel with my fingertips because I thought I had felt a vibration.  When I heard the beep and as it continued, Betty looked to the back, I slowed the car down and I stopped, and I said, "Betty is there something shifting in the car?"  

Dr. Simon: Did she say anything about hearing the beeps? 

Barney Hill: She said, “What is that noise?!" 

Dr Simon: Alright. 

Barney Hill: And we looked in the back, and Delsey had climbed up on the back seat and her ears were propped up, and the beep, beep, beep…..And we said, "Oh--oh, do you think that thing is still around?"  I called it a thing.  Betty called it a flying saucer and we had no answer, so we both just thought, “How strange.”  And I thought, “That's very peculiar. I wonder if I can make the car do that.”  So, I drove the car fast and then would decelerate rapidly, and I would swerve over to the left of the highway, and back to the right, and I came to a complete stop and accelerated rapidly, but I could not seem to get that sound.  And we drove down the highway and we saw the route for the express way….seventeen miles to Concord. And I drove to Concord and down Route 4. 

Dr. Simon: Did the beeping follow you there? 

Barney Hill: No, I did not hear any beeps.  

Dr. Simon: After you got on the concrete road……..Is that it? 

Barney Hill: No, I did not hear any beeps for quite a distance before I reached the main superhighway, because Route 3 was also concrete, where I heard the beeping.  

Dr. Simon: I see. 

Barney Hill: And I heard the beeping two times.  I heard the beeping when I got into the car or returned to the car at Indian Head and started down the highway.  I heard this series of beeps and I thought, "What is that, Betty?" and we did not hear it anymore. 

Dr Simon: Then she heard it too? 

Barney Hill: She heard it too.  And we did not hear it again until we had been in the woods and had returned to Route 3, and she asked me did I believe in flying saucers.  And I did not want to say what I really believed. 

Dr. Simon: What did you really believe? 

Barney Hill: I believed that we had seen and been a part of something different than anything I had ever seen before. 

Dr. Simon: Do you mean also this experience with these men in this operating room? 

Barney Hill: Yes.  And I…….. (Dr. Simon interrupts Barney.) 

Dr. Simon: Did you feel you had been kidnapped? 

Barney Hill: I didn't use that word.  I can only use that word intellectually. I did not feel that I had been kidnapped.  But I think of kidnapping when you are being harmed. 

Dr. Simon: And you weren't harmed. 

Barney Hill: No. 

Dr. Simon: Do you have any idea why this was done? 

Barney Hill: I was anxious to get home and look at my private parts. 

Dr. Simon: You wanted to see your private parts.  Were you afraid they had done something to them? 

Barney Hill: Well, I wanted to see them. I thought, "This is proof that something happened to me.”  And I was unsure and would waver and think, "It can't be."  But then I would think, “But, it did."  And I would think, “When I get home and look at my private parts, I will touch whatever touched me, and see if there is a mark.”  This is what I thought.

Dr Simon: (Pause) Alright.  Go on. 

Barney Hill: I drove home, and I walked into the house, and I was too tired to bring in my luggage, and Betty got out of the car, and she took Delsey, and she let Delsey relieve herself on the grass and brought her in. And I went into the bathroom and looked at my private parts and saw nothing wrong with them.  And I went into the bedroom, and I kept thinking that something is around me.  I went to the window, and I looked up into the morning sky, and I went to the back door and opened it and looked up into the sky. And I thought, "Something is around somewhere."  And Betty and I then retired, talking, "Isn't that very strange…whatever happened." And I could not remember anything that happened except that I was at Indian Head.  Then, I went to bed. And the next day (actually the same day, 9/20/1961) we decided we would not ever tell anyone, and we would only talk about it to each other.  And I said, "But Betty will you draw a picture of what you think you saw, and I will."  And we drew pictures, and they were identical, and Betty called her sister and told her sister. 

Dr. Simon: What was the condition of your car? 

Barney Hill: Betty went out of the house.  She came away from the telephone and she said, "Where is the compass?  Where is the compass?"  And when Betty does that to me, I immediately get angry and I said, "I don't know what you're talking about Betty." And she said, "Compass, Compass, where's the compass?"  And I said, "In the drawer where it always is." And she got it, and I was irritated because, when she is excited like that, she didn't think to open the drawer and find it.  And she went out of the house, and I went to the bedroom window, which is the front window of the house…apartment and looked at her. And she was running around the car, and I thought, "This thing is getting the best of Betty." And we'd better forget this as quickly as possible and stop remembering it."  And she stormed into the house and said, "Barney, come here!  Come here quick!"  And I went out and I looked at the compass when she placed it by the car and I said, "Oh, this is ridiculous Betty.  After all, the car is metal, and any metal will cause a compass to react this way."  And she said, "But look at what it does." And "Look at the spots on my car." And I looked and there were large spots… shiny spots on the trunk of the car.  And I thought, "Well what caused that?" And I started to try to wipe one off and she said, "Don't touch it." And I said, "How can you not know if it isn't anything?"  And I put the compass close to it and the compass would spin and spin, and I could move the compass as few inches to a spot on trunk that did not have a spot and the compass would drop down, and I could not understand this.  And I knew I did not know anything about compasses, and I told Betty, "After all, the compass is a cheap compass and there's nothing to get alarmed about." 

Dr. Simon: "What gave her the idea of using a compass? 

Barney Hill: I did not know at that time. 

Dr. Simon: Well, what did you find out? 

Barney Hill: She told me later that, while she was talking to her sister, her sister had suggested that she get a compass and check and see if the car was magnetized.  When we would place the compass anywhere except on those spots, it would just flop down. 

Dr Simon: You say these were shiny spots.  What do you mean by that? Were there changes in the color of your car, or just dust removed, or what? 

Barney Hill: Highly polished. 

Dr. Simon: As if the car had been highly polished? 

Barney Hill: Yes, in those spots. 

Dr. Simon: How big were they? 

Barney Hill: About the size of half dollars….silver dollars. 

Dr. Simon: Did you try to remove them? Or did you try to wipe the rest of the car off? 

Barney Hill: I never bothered with the spots. 

Dr. Simon: Was the rest of the car dusty, I suppose? 

Barney Hill: Yes, it was. 

Dr. Simon: And you didn't try to polish it off to see if you could get rid of the spots? 

Barney Hill: There had been a rain and where the rain had washed some of the dust off, the shiny spots were still there, and I didn't try to wipe them off. 

Dr. Simon: Could these spots have been caused by the raindrops taking the dust off? 

Barney Hill: No! The spots were shiny and perfect circles. 

Dr. Simon: Well, what did you do, just leave the spots? 

Barney Hill: I did. 

Dr. Simon: Well, did you wash or polish your car within a reasonable time afterwards? 

Barney Hill: That was Betty's car, and she washes her car. I suppose she did.  I didn't pay any more attention. 

Dr. Simon: You don't know. About how long did those spots stay then? 

Barney Hill: I shut them out.  I don't know.  I just stopped thinking about them. 

Dr. Simon: Oh, I see.  You don't know when they……….They did disappear didn't they? 

Barney Hill: Yes, they are gone. 

Dr. Simon: All right.  We'll stop with this now.  Now you'll no longer think about everything we've talked about today until I ask you to recall it, or anything else.  It will not trouble you at all. The eyes will not trouble you.  You won't even think about them. Everything is comfortable.  Everything is relaxed.  There is no need for anxiety and nothing to worry about.  Is that clear? 

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: Now you're comfortable, aren't you? 

Barney Hill: Yes, I am. 

Dr. Simon: And relaxed? You are not worried.  You will not worry.  Everything will be quite all right, and you and Betty will come back a week from today, again, just as you did today.  Do you feel all right now? 

Barney Hill: Yes, I do. 

Dr. Simon: Yes, you are very comfortable.  You will not worry about it.  It will not trouble you at all.  It's not going to affect your mind and it’s an experience that we'll talk about more, and we'll get it all cleared up.  So, you will have no fear…, no anxiety.  You will not think about this.  This will not come to you……….anything that we've talked about in these sessions.  You're sure of that now.  You will not think about it and it will not trouble you.  You'll be comfortable and relaxed, no pains, no aches, no anxiety.  You'll be all right.  

Barney Hill: Yes. 

Dr. Simon: And you may wake now. 

Dr. Simon: The pauses with (unintelligible) were because of technical difficulties where there seemed to be some over carriage into the tapes of a previous recording.  It was necessary to stop to try to make some adjustments which may possibly impair the quality of the tape, at certain points, on the right channel.  The left channel appeared to record quite well.  I did the first part on the right channel.  Mrs. Hill was induced prior to ………(Tape ends)

Hypnosis Session 3

Betty Hill

March 7, 1964

© Kathleen Marden 2023

All photo and textual rights reserved under the Pan-American and International Copyright Conventions. 

No part of this may be copied or published.

     Dr. Simon interviews Betty Hill under hypnosis for the first time. Betty recalls her trip through Montreal and through Canada to the White Mountains. Dr. Simon questions her about several of Barney's observations to check for accuracy. She describes the UFO and the first part of her abduction.  She writhes in pain and weeps profusely when a needle is inserted into her navel.

Dr. Simon: At 8:00 A.M., Mr. and Mrs. Barney Hill are expected for the third session under hypnosis. Mr. Hill will be reinforced, and then, the interview will be done with Mrs. Hill much as was done with Mr. Hill. (Later, Betty is seated in the examining room.) Now, as I said before you understand we are going to go over all of your experiences, particularly with respect to this experience in September 1961, under hypnosis; and that I am recording it fully, and that the recording is mine.  Do you understand that?

Betty Hill: Um-huh. Can we take tapes from you?

Dr. Simon: Oh, what we do in the future is just…well; we'll decide……nothing will ever be done with this without your approval and understanding.  If there is some reason that you will want copies of this, remember this will have to be my judgment, because this is not just a recording of events, but is a treatment. If I feel that parts of this are best not brought out, then …. You’ll have to trust me on that.  You understand?

Betty Hill: Yes.

Dr. Simon: Other than that, as for informational quality, I'll be glad to see that you have it. So, you understand all of this?

Betty Hill: Yes.

Dr. Simon: All right. So, trance Betty. You are in a deep, deep sleep, deep asleep, fully relaxed, far asleep, very comfortable, fully relaxed. Deep asleep. When I touch the top of your head your left arm will become rigid as a bar of steel. Rigid as a bar of steel. It cannot be bent or relaxed. Rigid. And your sleep becomes deeper and deeper and deeper. When I stroke the top of your hand, you will lose all sensation, and you will not feel this pin that I'm sticking in there.  Now your sensation is normal. Your arm is relaxed, and your sleep is deeper and deeper and deeper. Deeply relaxed……Far asleep. Far asleep. In a deep, deep sleep. Now we're going to go back.  Go back to your vacation in September of 1961. You come from Niagara Falls to Montreal. You will now remember what you just said and will recall everything of all of your experiences, all of your memories, all of your feelings. You will give me all of this in full detail. Now you're coming from Niagara Falls to Montreal.  You are on your way home from on your vacation.  Now tell me all that you experienced……All that you felt…. You and your husband.

Betty Hill: We are driving along, and the streets were wide. The sun was shining. There were quite a few people on the streets.

Dr. Simon: Where was this?

Betty Hill: Montreal. And I was looking at the houses and the stores, in the windows, and we had to slow down in front of a bank and guards came. Men in uniforms came running out and they seemed to be chasing someone. And we turned the car radio on and found out that the bank had just been robbed. And we kept driving. We got lost. We stopped at a gas station to get directions, and the attendant spoke French and couldn't understand us, and he thought we wanted the ladies’ room.  So, we went to another garage, and they told us how to get back into the center of Montreal. And we rode down St. Catherine street, and I saw a mink coat in the window for $1, 895. Then, we decided to find a hotel but then we didn't know if they would allow Delsey to be in a motel. So then, we thought we would look for a motel outside of Montreal somewhere. And we got lost again and Barney stopped again, and a man told him how to go, but I guess we took the wrong turn because we went over a bridge and found ourselves outside of Montreal.  And we kept going. We talked about turning around and going back because we hadn't done any sight seeing in Montreal, but we kept driving, thinking we would get a motel first.  And as we drove, the roads got narrower and it was getting later, and I kept seeing a sign written in French and I thought the sign said potato fritters, and so we came to a little drive-in restaurant. And the woman in this little drive-in restaurant came out and started speaking to me in French and I said I didn't understand Canadian French.  And she kept saying that she was sure that I was French, but I'm not.  And then I found out that it wasn't potato fritters; it was potato chips.  So, we had the potato chips and coffee, and I don't remember if I had a hot dog or a hamburger or one of each. But we took the food out to a table beside the drive-in and ate out there, and we took Delsey out of the car and tied her to the leg of the table, while we ate.    

Dr. Simon: This is your dog Delsey?

Betty Hill: Yes.

Dr. Simon: How did she get that name?

Betty Hill: Delsey? Well, her registered name is Schultz, and I didn't like it.  I mean, it’s a cold sounding name and it also sounds like you're calling for a bear instead of a dog.  And we just…, I just started taking Schultze and putting other sounds……And when I said, “Delsey,” she responded.  So, it’s been Delsey ever since. 

Dr. Simon: All right. Go on. This is an aside. You had Delsey tied to the leg of the table.

Betty Hill: Yes. The people in the drive-in talked to us for a few minutes. They were quite friendly. And then we got into the car, and we started driving back to New Hampshire. I mean, we kept thinking we were going to stop at a motel. We kept looking for a motel to stop at, but we didn't……or somehow, we just didn't see one, or we passed it before we noticed it, or something.  We kept driving and driving. It was getting later, and it began to get dark.

Dr. Simon: Yes

Betty Hill: We got into……. It was dark and we got into this town and stopped to eat, and oh…, the restaurant was all right. It wasn't too good.  The waitress could only seem to speak a little English, and then, we left there. And I think we got off of the main road somehow because we went to the Customs, and stopped at the Customs, and he asked us how……..Well, he said that they didn't get many tourists at this Customs because it was out of the way. Most people went to a better traveled highway, and I don't know how we made the mistake and got onto this road, but Barney got out and he looked through the trunk of the car.  We had a lot of odds and ends, and then he said we could go. 

Dr. Simon: Didn't you spend the night anywhere?

Betty Hill: Coming home from Montreal? No.

Dr. Simon: Or was it coming into Montreal?

Betty Hill: We stayed the night before we got into Montreal down at this motel by the Thousand Islands. We stayed at this motel that night and left there in the morning and went into Montreal.

Dr. Simon: I see. Well now, we are back at the Customs.

Betty Hill: All right.

Dr. Simon: Unless there is anything else you can think of.

Betty Hill: No. Well, then he told us that he checked the car and said everything was all right, and we could go along.

Dr. Simon: This was the Canadian Customs?

Betty Hill: On the American/Canadian border.

Dr. Simon: Did you have any concerns at the Customs about anything?

Betty Hill: No. Except the trunk of the car was so untidy, and somewhere we heard a weather report, and this is what decided us to go back to Portsmouth, rather than stay overnight.  And this was a hurricane (that) was headed towards New England and they didn't know if it would go out to sea, or not.  So, this is when we decided we should come straight home, instead of staying over night in Montreal.  Then we got into the mountains, and we were riding. Oh, just as we came into New Hampshire we stopped to get gas and we paid the man with the last of the Canadian money we had.  That was just after the Customs.  Then we came into Colebrook and there was some kind of……. I don't know……We went by the restaurant and there was some kind of construction……the road………There was something that distracted our attention.  And we turned around and went back and we had a lunch.

Dr. Simon: What time of the day was this?

Betty Hill: It was……there was a clock above the door of the ladies’ room, and it was 10:00 o'clock, and we finished eating and left………And we went by the town of Lancaster, and we were riding along and there was a truck that passed us, and there must have been something dragging on the ground under the truck because there were all of these sparks flying out from under it.  And it was sort of startling.  I thought the truck might catch on fire and I wondered if the driver knew about it.  And we kept driving and looking around.  The moon was bright and not quite full, but very bright and alive.  And there was a star down below the moon, on the lower left-hand side of the moon, and then right after we left Lancaster, I noticed that there was a bigger star up over this one.  And it hadn't been there, and I showed Barney, and we kept watching it and it seemed to be getting brighter and bigger looking. (She told NICAP Investigator, Walter Webb, on 10/20/61, at first glance it appeared to be a falling star, only it fell upward. See NICAP report, A Dramatic UFO Encounter in the White Mountains, NH Sept. 19-20, 1961.)  And we watched it for quite a while and I was puzzled about it…., also curious.  And while I was watching it Delsey was getting somewhat restless, and then we went by a mountain that obstructed the view, and then I could see this star again, I thought it had moved, but I wasn't quite sure, so I kept watching it.  Then, it seemed as if it did move.  And Delsey was restless, so I told Barney that I thought we should let Delsey out, and it would give us a chance to look at this star through the binoculars.  And so, we drove along, and we came to a parking space off the highway; one that had been built there, and I guess it was so people could drive off to look at the view and there were woods all around.  And there were a couple of trash barrels and Barney said we should look out for bears.  And he was……. this was his idea. (*This is when Barney retrieves the gun from the trunk of the car.) So, I got out of the car first and put Delsey on her leash and started to walk her. And then I noticed that the star was definitely moving so, I went back to the car and got out the binoculars. And Barney got out then and came around and took Delsey. And I was looking through the binoculars at the object and Barney was saying it was a satellite. But it wasn't. It was moving fast, but it went in front of the moon, and I saw it.  I saw it travel across the whole face of the moon, and it was odd shaped, and it was flashing all different colored lights.

Dr. Simon: How far away would you say it was?

Betty Hill: It looked as though it was quite close to the moon.

Dr. Simon: Close to the moon?

Betty Hill: Yes. It looked……….at that time it wasn't close to us, but I could see it outlined in front of the moon, and there were like searchlights rotating around.  Not around it but…………. (*Pease Air Force Base initially assumed that Betty had observed an advertising searchlight.)

Dr. Simon: Like these lights you see on top of police cars?

Betty Hill: No.  You know what a searchlight looks like?  And how it's in a pencil line of light and it swings around.  They were like that.

Dr. Simon: You mean you could see these long beams of ……….

Betty Hill: Of light.  They were different colors.

Dr. Simon: Were they usual colors that you know?

Betty Hill: Yuh, they were bright colors like a bright orange light, almost a reddish beam.  And there was like a blue, well you said, “Like a light on a police cruiser.”  You know it was something like that because, when a cruiser light turns around, somehow and it flashes.  Well, I guess that even though they seemed to come out into a ray thing, somehow, they were… all of these different kinds of lights seemed to flash, flash, flash. 

Dr. Simon: There were other colors of red, amber, and green?

Betty Hill: And like a blue.  And they were just a flash, flash, flash of different colors.  And I had never seen anything like it before, and it was moving quite fast.  And although I had never seen a satellite, I always thought of a satellite as traveling like a shooting star……. maybe not quite as fast.  But this wasn’t traveling that fast.  When I saw it go in front of the moon, I was sort of fascinated and I kept watching.  But then I tried to get Barney to look. I wanted him to see it before it got beyond the face of the moon, but he just kept saying, "Oh, it's a satellite." And so, after that, we got ……… (Dr. Simon talks over Betty)

Dr. Simon: By satellite do you mean one of those things we keep putting up into the air?

Betty Hill: Yes.

Dr. Simon: Like the Telstar and things like that?

Betty Hill: Yes. And he said it was just a satellite, and he was over by the car, and by the time he got back, it had gone from in front of the moon, but he did look at it.  And he looked at it for a few minutes or a few seconds and he gave the binoculars back to me.

Dr. Simon: You said it had an odd shape.  How would you describe the shape? Was it round or shaped like anything you know like a plane or……?

Betty Hill: No, not like a plane.  It was sort of ………. All I could think of was uh, uh…like a cigar.

Dr. Simon: Like a cigar?

Betty Hill: Yes, it was long, but there weren't any wings, and it was going sideways. You know, long, like a cigar?  It was going from the left to the right, and it was just like a cigar, holding a cigar up in front of the moon with all these lights flashing around it.  So, then Barney looked at it, and I took the binoculars and looked again, and gave them back to him.  And then I went over and put Delsey in the car and got in the car myself and shut the door, and then, Barney came over and put…, (*Betty stops herself.  She is editing out the fact that Barney put the gun on the floor of the car.), got in the car.  And he said, “They've seen us and they're coming this way.”  And I laughed and asked him if he had watched Twilight Zone recently on TV. And he didn't say anything. (*The Hills did not watch the Twilight Zone.)

Dr. Simon: Why did you mention Twilight Zone?

Betty Hill: Because the idea was fantastic.

Dr. Simon: Had there been anything like this on Twilight Zone?

Betty Hill: I don't know.  I never saw Twilight Zone, but I had heard people talk about this program.  And I was under the impression that it was sort of a way out type of thing. 

Dr. Simon: I see.

Betty Hill: And when he said that they had seen us and that they were swinging around and coming in our direction, I thought that his imagination was being overactive.

Dr. Simon: Did he have the binoculars then?

Betty Hill: I left him standing at the edge of this parking area looking at this object when I took Delsey, and she and I got in the car.  And I sat down and waited for him to finish looking, and this is when he came back and said that it had turned around and was coming towards us.

Dr. Simon: Did you look to see if it was doing that?

Betty Hill: Not at that moment.  I thought that this was sort of…. Well, I didn't know……..Barney kept saying that it was heading towards us.  So, I thought, “Well, I don't know what gave him this idea.”  But I was becoming a little curious about why he thought so.  So, I picked up the binoculars and at first, I couldn't find it…, couldn't find this object.  But then, I did see it and I could see that it was getting close to us.  And this was coming in and I would…, it was still far, far away, and even when it was first coming in it looked like a star.  It was a solid light type of thing.  And then, I would take the binoculars down and look at it and it was just like a star coming in closer.  But then when I looked at it though the binoculars and it would of course appear much bigger, but it was flying in a very odd way.  And this was what……I was all excited. 

Dr. Simon: What do you mean by odd way?

Betty Hill: Well, you know how an airplane flies along in a straight line?

Dr. Simon: Yes.

Betty Hill: It wasn't flying like that.  It was turning.  It was rotating. And it would rotate…. It would go along and fly in a straight line for a short…, just a short distance…, and then, it would tip over on its side and go up. 

Dr. Simon: Well now, let's see.  It was shaped like a cigar you say.  It flew in a straight line.  Did it fly as if it were a cigar going along………. like an arrow?

Betty Hill: That’s the way it looked when it was out……… (Dr. Simon interrupts Betty.)

Dr. Simon: And when it tipped over what did it do?  How did it tip?

Betty Hill: Well, all right.  You take a cigar and you lay it flat on the desk.  Now you stand the cigar up on one end, going straight up and down.  This is what this did.  And in the meanwhile, it gave the appearance of spinning all of the time this was happening.  And then it would……. (Dr. Simon interrupts Betty.)

Dr. Simon: Spinning on the long axis?

Betty Hill: Uh, Yes, it would go along straight, and then it would suddenly go up straight, and it would flatten out horizontally, and then it would drop down straight.  This seemed to be the overall pattern.  It wasn't done in an exactly precise way.  It would sort of jerk.  It would jerk up and then sort of flatten out, and so, it was sort of a ………it wasn't smoothly done. And as they got closer, they seemed to be more of this jumping back and forth in the sky. And it followed us for a long time, and I was………. Barney was driving, and I was watching this almost completely. And the way it was flying, I thought it was maybe the vibrations of the car that was causing it to look this way through the binoculars.  And so…………

Dr. Simon: You mean this jumping effect?

Betty Hill: Yes.  I thought maybe the vibration of the car was giving this effect to the binoculars.  And so, I would keep asking Barney to stop the car and look at it, and he would stop.  And he would say, well, he couldn't see it flying this way.  And I could, and so then, I would look at other objects like streetlights to see how they would………. uh, if a streetlight would give this appearance. And it wouldn't and I kept trying to figure out……. I kept saying that nothing flies like this.  So, it’s something that I'm doing that is giving the idea that it's flying like this. And everything else that I look at is all right.  It doesn't look like that.  It was just this one object, and we kept starting and stopping, and looking at it and………. (Tape ends)

Dr. Simon: All right Betty.  Continue now, where we left off.

Betty Hill: We came by the tramway on Cannon Mountain and there's a lighted area on the top that's been up there, and I think that the lights might have been from the restaurant, and as I was watching, the lights went out.  And I looked at my watch and it was, I think, ten minutes past eleven.  And I thought if anybody was up there, they would be able to get a good look at this object. Because it went right behind the restaurant, and then there is a lookout tower in that area, and when I was watching this to see what this object would do, I didn’t see it.  I don't know if it went down in the valley between the two mountains or if it turned its lights off.  This puzzled me because I kept looking for it and I thought,"Well, maybe they're going away."  They aren't interested in us. But then when we came out by the Old Man of the Mountain there it was.  It looked as though it was bouncing along the top of the mountain, the ridge.  And it would go down a little bit on the other side and I would lose sight of it, and I kept wondering why they were following us.  And I figured that………I was wondering if they were as curious about me as I was about them.

Dr. Simon: You keep speaking of them…. Did you?

Betty Hill: Well, I figured there must be somebody inside the object.  You know, someone was directing its flight, and so whoever was inside……. I was very curious, and I had a feeling of……. you know that, in a way, it was sort of intriguing. I didn't know what was going to happen, but I can't say………  I wasn't afraid.  I was just curious, and I just had a feeling that something is going to happen, and I don’t know what it is. But and I hope I won't be too afraid when it does happen, but I was just waiting for something to happen. So, we kept riding along and we stopped in one place and there were too many trees.  We lost sight of it there. 

When we got to the Flume, Barney drove in on the parking area on the right-hand side, and we stopped there and tried to get a really good look at it.  But there were too many trees there, too.  But we would go along and there would be areas where there would be a fairly clear view.  And then, we went past the Flume, somewhere between the Flume and Indian Head or…….it was just beyond the Flume or just beyond Indian Head.  There was a motel, and it was like cabins, these small neat looking cabins.  The sign itself wasn't lighted, but there was one cabin on the end that had a light on, and there was a man standing in the door.  And I saw this, and I thought, "If I want to I can get out of this whole situation right now.  All we've got to do is drive in here and this object will go away, and that will be the end of it." I mean this is an escape from it if I want this, and I was thinking this, and I didn't say anything to Barney. I just kept………. I didn't say anything.  I just thought, “I don't know what is going to happen, but I'm ready for it.”  And Barney was sort of irritating me because he wants to……. His whole attitude was that I was trying to wish something upon him.  I got the impression that he was trying to deny what was actually happening…………that he just didn't want to know that it was there, even though he would stop and look at it.  I don't think he put too much………. He didn't seem to have any realization of what was going on. 

And so then, it was… now, it was fairly close, and I could see that it wasn't spinning.  When it was coming in it was spinning because I could see that there were sort of like lights on one side, and this gave it a blinking, twinkling effect.  But then, all of a sudden, it stopped doing this and I could see that it must have been………. I just got the idea that there were lights only on one side. And then, all of a sudden, the object shot ahead of us and swung around in front of the car.  I was watching this when it did it.  And it was up on my side in the windshield right directly in front of me, and I looked at it through the binoculars, and I could see a double row of windows.  And then, as I was watching it, I was thinking, "Well this end has got the windows and the back of it must be dark, and this is why it twinkles, and while I'm sitting there amazed by all of this……, all of a sudden one side, on the left hand side, a red light came out.  And then, on the right-hand side, this light showed.

Dr. Simon: You say left-and right-hand side……. how was it?

Betty Hill: I was facing the object.

Dr. Simon: Was it broad side to you?

Betty Hill: It was.  Now all you could see was the row of the windows.

Dr. Simon: The row of the windows.

Betty Hill: Yes, and then on my…I was facing it, so on my left-hand side there was a light, and then, on the on the right…………….

Dr. Simon: You were looking through the windshield?

Betty Hill: I was looking through the windshield up at it.

Dr. Simon: How far away would you say it was?

Betty Hill: Oh, I couldn't estimate.  You couldn't see it too clearly without the binoculars, (the window dividers), but it was a fairly large object. (*On 9/21/61, Barney reported to Pease Air Force Base that the object was hundreds of feet above the automobile.  Then, on 10/20/61, the Hills told NICAP Investigator, Walter Webb, that it was 8-10 stories above the ground. One can surmise that it descended toward the Hills’ vehicle south of Indian Head and approached within 8-10 stories when Barney stopped the car.)

Dr. Simon: Well, you couldn't see windows without the binoculars? Was that it?

Betty Hill: The uh, I didn't…………I couldn't see the division between the windows without the binoculars.  I could see the band of white. And when I saw the second red light I kept telling Barney to stop……."Stop the car Barney and look at it."  And he kept saying, "Well why? It's nothing.  It will go away."  (*Barney is refusing to cooperate with Betty.) And I kept saying, "You've got to stop Barney!  You've got to stop!  You've never seen anything like this in your whole life.  It's amazing!" And so, he said, Oh, he's going to humor me then. “Oh, all right, give me the binoculars.” And he looked at it and I kept saying, "Do you see it?  Do you see it?'  And he kept saying, "Oh its just some plane or something."  And I am saying, "Okay, it’s a plane.  Did you ever see a plane with two red lights?  I always thought planes had one red and one green light."  And he kept looking at it, and then, he'd give the binoculars back to me, and then I'd watch it, and then he kept saying well, he couldn't see very well.  So, he opened the car door…………No, first he put down the window of his car door and tried to stick his head out and look up over the roof of the car at it, but the motor of the car was running, and he said he was going to………. Well, he got out. He opened the car door and he jumped out………..He put his foot out on the highway and the other one was inside the car, and he was standing, you know, with the car door open, but he was leaning on the body of the car and he kept looking at it, and then, he didn't say anything.  He just stepped outside, and he kept going away from the car. And then I thought, "This isn't a very bright spot for us to have stopped the car because we're right on the main highway and we're right directly in the middle of the highway. I mean we're not on the right side or the left side, we're right directly in the middle, (straddling the center line) and there should be traffic on this highway.  So, I thought, “While he's out getting a good look at this, I'll watch in case any cars are coming in either direction.  I'll have to get the car out of the middle of the street." So, I'd look out the back window and out the front window, and it seems that I sat there…and I kept waiting and waiting and Barney didn't come back.  And I was sitting there waiting and I looked ……. It was dark there. There weren't any streetlights or anything, and I noticed that when I looked out, he was quite a distance from the car.  And he was still going away from the car, so I leaned over on the front seat, and I was saying, "Barney, come back here! Barney, you damn fool; get back here! (Crying plea) Ugh! Come back!" (Crying profusely now) If the damn fool out there doesn't come back, I'm going out after him. (Sobbing) And I'm hollering, "Barney, Barney, Barney get back here you damn fool.  What's wrong with you?” 

And I start to slide across……I was going to get out on his side of the car because that door was still open a little bit, and I started to slide across the seat because I was going to go out and get him. And just as I started to slide across the seat and I got the door most of the way open, he came. He was running like mad down the street and he…………When I saw him coming I sat up, and it was lucky I did, because he threw the binoculars in the car and they landed on the seat beside me, and he was hysterical. He was…………I don't know if he was laughing or crying, but he said that they were going to capture us.  We had to get the hell out of there. They were going to capture us. And because the car motor was running, he put the car into first and he stepped on the gas, and we started to take off very rapidly. So, he kept saying to me, “Look out. Look out at them. They’re right overhead.  They are right directly over our car.”  And so, I did want to see them again. I mean I was sort of afraid, but I wasn't that afraid.  So, we were moving. We were going quite fast then, so I wound down ………. I turned down the window on my side of the car, and I tried to put my body out through the window, and I looked up…………and I looked up, and I couldn't see a thing.  And I kept looking and looking and looking up, and I couldn't see them, and I couldn't see any light.  I couldn't see anything.  I couldn't even see the sky. I couldn't see anything.  So, I told Barney, I said, "I don’t see them. They aren't there. I don't see anything.  Everything is all black. I don't see them." (*Betty realized that she was observing the underside of the craft.) And so then, I pulled my head in, and I wound up the window of the car, and I thought, “Well, maybe they're out the back. I looked out the back window and I didn't see anything and then, all of a sudden, there was this beep, beep, beep, beep…………Beep, beep, beep, beep………noise.  And Barney said, "What's that? What's that noise?"  And I said, "I don't know. It sounds like……. all I can think of is some kind of electrical signal.  Somebody's… you know………its beep, beep, beep, beep……….and then I thought, "Oh darn, why didn't I learn the Morse code.", because maybe this is the Morse code, and I don't know it.  And I thought, “Well, maybe it's electrical.  It’s a shock, so I put my hand on the metal of the car, and I kept feeling and feeling, and I didn't feel any shock………No electric shock.  The whole car was vibrating. You know? It kept vibrating.

Dr. Simon: Um hum.

Betty Hill: And well, that's funny, there was no………. well, I don't know.  There was a beeping and there wasn't any electrical shock.  What happened next? And we were riding along, and I keep waiting for Barney to tell me about what he did see on the highway.

Dr. Simon: How long would you say he was away from you when he was on the highway? Actually, how long was it?

Betty Hill: Oh………. It seemed like a long time.

Dr. Simon: Well, how long was it?

Betty Hill: I don't know………. I would say………. For some reason I don't know why I would say four or five minutes.

Dr. Simon: Four or five minutes?

Betty Hill: Yuh. I don't remember looking at my watch.  Well, it was dark anyway. I heard the beeping sound.

Dr. Simon: Did you see this object anymore?

Betty Hill: I kept trying to see it. Every once in a while, I'd look out the window for it, but……………. (Long pause) My mind is a blank, but I can almost remember.

Dr. Simon: Yes, you can.

Betty Hill: I can't get beyond that beeping.

Dr. Simon: You can. It's all right now. You can get beyond it.

Betty Hill: (Weeping)

Dr. Simon: Yes. Go on. It's all right. You're all right.  You needn't be too upset. 

Betty Hill: We're driving along.  I don't know where we are.  I don't even know how we got here.  We've been driving……. I don't even know how long…….and we aren't even talking.  And I just keep thinking that something is going to happen. And I'm not really too afraid. Because right now……at that time I didn't feel afraid.  (Weeps) 

Dr. Simon: Why are you crying if you're not afraid?

Betty Hill: I am afraid now, but I don't……. I was afraid when I saw the men in the road. (Weeps profusely)

Dr. Simon: The men in the road?

Betty Hill: (Cries) I've never been so afraid in my life. 

Dr. Simon: Tell me about the men in the road.

Betty Hill: (Weeps profusely)

Dr. Simon: It's all right now.  You're safe here.  Tell me about the men in the road.

Betty Hill: We're driving along and we're on a tarred road, and all of a sudden, without any warning or any reason or rhyme or anything, Barney made a ……(unintelligible) the brakes.  I think they squealed when he stopped so suddenly. He made a sharp left hand turn on the highway and we went onto this narrow road. And I was wondering what he was doing down here but he wasn't saying anything, and I wasn't.  I figured well, maybe we're lost, but so what.  We'll come out somewhere.  And we're going along and there was a sharp curve in the road and as we went around the curve there were trees.  There were a lot of tall, tall trees on my side. I don't know about Barney's side of the road. 

There were these men standing in the highway. And I wasn't too afraid when I saw them.  They were standing there, and I thought well, you know………. There was several. Oh, I don't know……And you couldn't get a good look at them.  And I thought, “Well are they in a car and the car is broken down? Or, what are they doing there?”  And Barney, of course had to stop, and then he stopped the car and these men started to come up to the car. They separated. They came up in two groups. And when they started to do that, I got really scared. The motor died…the car stalled and when they started coming up Barney tried to start the car. He tried to start it, and do you know how a motor will just turn over and turn over? It won't fire.  (Cries) He thinks that's them again.

Dr. Simon: He did what?

Betty Hill: (Terrified weeping) He tried to start the car and it won't start and the men are coming towards us, and I think I can get away from them.  If I can get the car door open, I can run in the woods and hide. And I'm thinking it and I just put my hand on the car door to open it and men come up, and they open it for me.  And they open the car door and they're not very big men.  And there are one, two three…. next to me and then this. He took me out.

Dr Simon: I didn't hear that.

Betty Hill: Two men just, at the car door and then there's one, two, three men and then there's one, two more behind them and one man puts his hand out………. (pause)

Dr. Simon: Go on.

Betty Hill: I don't know what happened.

Dr. Simon: You can remember everything now. What did these men look like? Could you see their faces?

Betty Hill: No.

Dr. Simon: How were they dressed?

Betty Hill: Alike somehow or other.

Dr. Simon: Did they have on some kind of uniform or were they in ordinary clothes?

Betty Hill: (Unintelligible) ………. uniform.

Dr. Simon: Uniforms. Does it resemble any uniform that you know?

Betty Hill: I couldn't see.

Dr. Simon: All right. Your memory is very sharp, but you needn't be worried.  Remember everything now and tell me all that happened. What are you thinking now?

Betty Hill: I'm thinking I'm asleep. 

Dr. Simon: You're asleep in the car? (Pause) Go on. Tell me everything that you're thinking.

Betty Hill: I'm thinking I'm asleep and I've got to wake up.  I've got to wake up.  I don't want to be asleep.  I keep trying. I've got to wake myself up. And I try and I go back again. I keep trying. I keep trying to wake up. (Sudden increase in rate of verbalization) Then I do! I open my eyes and I'm walking through the woods!  I just open them quickly and then I shut them again. Even though I'm asleep, we were walking.  (Sobs) And there's a man on this side and there's a man on this side……And two men in front of me and I think, was I all alone with them? And there's me and I think, "Well, where's Barney?"  And I look at these men, and I turn around and Barney's behind me.

Dr. Simon: Barney's behind you. Um-huh.

Betty Hill: And there's a couple of men behind me, and then there's Barney and he's……. (Sobs) And there's a man on each side of him.  And my eyes are open, but Barney is still asleep. He's walking and he's asleep.  And the uh……. Then I begin to get mad, and I go, “Who the heck are these characters and what do they think they're doing?”  So, I turn around and I say, "Barney, wake up. Barney, why don't you wake up?"  And he doesn't pay any attention.  He keeps walking and I keep going a little bit further and I turn around and I say his name again, "Barney, wake up!"  And he doesn't pay any attention and then, the man who's walking beside me  says, "Oh, is his name Barney?"  And I turn around and I looked at this man and I figured it was none of his business. So, I didn't speak to him.  Then we keep walking and I try to wake Barney up again. I keep saying, "Barney, Barney wake up." But he doesn’t, so the man said……He asked me again……. He said, "Is Barney his name?"  Then I wouldn't tell him, so he said, "Don't be afraid.  You don't have any reason to be afraid.  We're not going to harm you.  We just want to do some tests, and when the tests are over with, we'll take you and Barney back and put you in your car, and you'll be on your way back home in no time."  So, I mean he was sort of reassuring in a way, but I wasn't……. I can't say that I trusted what he said.  And I wasn't sure what was going to happen…. And we kept walking and Barney was still asleep and then……….

Dr. Simon: You mean he was walking in his sleep?

Betty Hill: Yuh. He was just like sleepwalking.

Dr. Simon: And these men spoke good English?

Betty Hill: Uh, only one spoke, the one who was on my left and he said……and then he was more or less …………He had an accent. He had sort of a foreign accent, but he was, you know business like. So then, we kept walking, and we came to a clearing and there was ………. Oh, I wish it was lighter so I could get a better picture of it.  There was a ramp and a door. The object was on the ground.

Dr. Simon: The object was on the ground?

Betty Hill: I think it was the same one I was watching in the sky and there were trees, and then, there was a path and there was this clearing and this object……. I could see it just about filled up this clearing. And they're taking me up to the object.  And I don't want to go on it!  I don't know what's going to happen if I go on it.  So, I don't want to go.  And Barney's no protection. He's sound asleep.  And I don't want to go on it.

Dr. Simon: He's sound asleep.  What was he doing, walking along? Is there somebody supporting him?

Betty Hill: Yuh, there's a man on each side.  One has each arm, and they're sort of ………. And his eyes are shut, and he doesn't hear anything I say, and he's sort of……..he's standing on his own two feet.  But he's just dazed, and they're sort of directing him and helping him along.  Anyway, he's quite a bit taller than the men. 

Dr. Simon: He's taller than the men?

Betty Hill: Yuh…Yuh, he's way above them………So anyway, we get to the arc, and I don't want to go on.  And so, the man behind me say's to go on.  And he's a little angry with me. “Oh, go on. The longer you stand out here fooling around, the longer it’s going to take, so why don't you just go on and get it over with, and get back to your car?  We haven't got much time either.”  So, he or one of the other men………I still don't want to go……. took my arm and I got sort of a helpless feeling. It was the best I could do at this point. I suppose I'd just go along with them.  And I go up the ramp, and I go inside, and in the corridor to the left. We go up the corridor and there's a room, and they start to take me in the room. 

I'm standing in the doorway, and I turn around waiting for them to bring Barney in.  But they don't do this. They lead Barney right past the door where I'm standing.  So, I said, "What are you doing with Barney? Bring him in here where I am. And the man says, "No. We've only got equipment enough in one room to do one person at a time.  If we took you both in the same room it would take too long. So, Barney will be all right. They're going to take him into the next room.  And then as soon as we get done testing the both of you, you will go back to the car.  And you don't have to be afraid.  And so, I watch them take Barney into the next room and I go in this room, and some of the men come in the room with this man who speaks English and me, and they stay for a minute. I don't know who they are.  I guess they're the crew.  But they only stay for a minute and the man who speaks English is there, and another man comes in, and I haven't seen him before.  I think he's a doctor.  And they came in the door.

And in one corner there's a stool…. a white……Is it white? I don't know if it's white or chrome.  There's a stool and the………. the……stool, and they put me on the stool. I sit on the stool, and I have a blue dress on, and they push up the sleeve of my dress and they look at my arm here……. They both look at my arm. They turn my arm over and they look at it one here…….and they have a machine……I don't know what it is. And they bring the machine over, and they put it………. I don't know what kind of machine.  It's something like a microscope, only a microscope with a big lens.  And they put a……a…. I don't know.  I had an idea they were taking a picture of my skin. And they both looked through this machine here and here, and then they were talk………I don't know……. I couldn't understand what they were saying.  And then they took a something like a letter opener, only it wasn't. They scraped my arm here…they scraped, and they looked like little ………You know how your skin gets dry and flaky sometimes like little particles of skin?…………. They put, there was something like a little piece of cellophane plastic……something like that, and they put what came off on the plastic. And then the man who spoke English………. They both spoke English……The man who brought me on this contraption is the one who took and he ………… (Tape ends)

Dr. Simon: (Tape resumes) You can go right over your story.

Betty Hill: So, I'm sitting on the stool and there's this little bracket.  My head is resting against the bracket. And the examiner opens my eyes and looks at them with a light. And he opens my mouth, and he looks at my throat and my teeth and he looks in my ears. And then, he turned my head, and he looks in this ear. And then he takes like a swab or q-tip, I guess it is like that they use on babies, and he cleaned out, he puts it in my left ear.  And he puts this on another piece of material. And the leader takes it and rolls it up and puts it in the top drawer, too.  Oh, then he feels my hair, then the back of my neck. And they take a couple of strands of my hair, and they pull it out and he gives this to the leader, and he wraps that all up and puts that in the top drawer. Then he takes something that may be like scissors. I don't know what it is, and they cut a piece of my hair here.  They cut off a piece of it and he gives that to him. And then he feels my neck. He starts feeling behind my ears and under my chin and down my neck and through my shoulders around my collarbone. And then they take off my shoes and they look at my feet and they look at my hands. (Still speaking without hesitation) They look my hands all over and he takes……Uh…

The light is very bright, and so some…. I don't always…. My eyes aren't open……I am still a little scared too.  I'm not particularly interested in looking at them.  And so, I try to keep my eyes shut and then I do open…. You know not all the time. I sort of give myself a little relief by not looking at them. I shut my eyes, and he takes something, and he goes underneath my fingernail. And then he takes something, I don't know, probably manicure scissors or something and he cuts off a piece of my fingernail.  And they look my feet all over.  They keep…. I don't think they do anything to them.  They just feel my feet and my toes and all.

And then the doctor, the examiner says he wants to do some tests. He wants to check my nervous system. He wants to find out how my nerves and his nerves are different. And I think he's got…. I don't know how their nervous systems are but hope that we'd never have nerve enough to go around kidnapping people right off the highways like he's done.  And I …..He tells me to take off my dress, and then, before I have a chance hardly to stand up and do it, the examiner……My dress has a zipper down the back …In the back? Yuh, it has a zipper down the back and the examiner unzips my……. Yuh, it goes way down to my waist, the zipper does. (*When Betty arrived home, she noticed that her dress was torn, so she folded it and placed it in her closet. After Dr. Simon gave her permission to consciously recall this hypnotically retrieved memory, she removed her dress from the closet. Betty recalled that the examiner had struggled with her zipper. This caused her dress to tear. On the left side of the zipper, she found a one-inch tear in the thick zipper fabric. On the right side, there was a two-inch tear in the stitching. Additionally, a pink powdery substance coated portions of her dress. The dress has undergone forensic analysis, and the lab reports are on file. The dress is in the Hills' archival collection at the Milne Special Collections Library at UNH.) 

And so, I slip my dress off. I don't have my dress or my shoes on and there's a……. Next over is a stool and then out in the middle of the room is a table, some kind of table. It's not very high.  I would say about the height of a desk. Ah, I lie down on the table on by back and he brings over this…. Ah, oh, how can I describe it?………They're like needles. There's a whole cluster of needles and each needle has a wire running from it and ah, I don't know.  There's some kind of a gadget on the end of these needles.  I think it's something, ah, ah like a TV picture screen.  You know when the picture isn't on; you get all kinds of lines or something like that.  And so, he puts me down on the table and they bring these needles over, and they don't stick them into me.  No, not really, no not like sticking a needle into a person. But they touch me with the needles. The…the, ah, It doesn't hurt, except where was it? Someplace ………Then he just touches me. I just feel a needle touching me. It doesn't hurt at all.  But then he does it all up in back of my ears and um, in here somehow, and up over all different spots on my head. And then he goes, they go along my neck here, and then into here, somehow, or other.  And then…down here on my arms and here. I don't know.  They keep putting (Unintelligible). And then he puts it on my knee and when he did, my leg jumped. And then…on my foot, too. They did it around my ankle somehow or other.

And then they have me roll over on my stomach and they pull my slip up around my neck and they touch all along my back. They touch with these needles somehow or other. I don't know what they're doing but they seem to be happy about whatever they're doing.  And then, oh! They……. they check in………They have some kind of record they're making.  I don't know just what it is.

Then they roll me over on my back (distressed tone of voice) and the examiner has a long needle in his hand, and I see the needle, and it's bigger than any needle I've ever seen.  And I asked him what he is going to do with it, and he said, "Just a simple test."  It won't hurt me. (Weeping) And I ask him what? And he said he just wants to put it in my navel and it's just a simple test.  I tell him no. It will hurt. Don't do it.  Don't do it.  And he says, "No, it won't hurt." And he sticks the needle into my navel, and it hurts. (Crying) And I'm crying, and I tell him, "It’s hurting. It's hurting and hurting.  Take it out."  And then the leader…. He goes over and he puts his hand, runs his hand in front of my eyes and he says I'll be all right.  I won't feel it. (Relieved sigh) And all the pain goes away. (Deep breathing and Ah………) But I still (Unintelligible) the pain goes away, but I'm still sore from where they put that nee…. I don't know why they put that long needle into my navel.  I tried to tell them it was……. They shouldn't do it. (Sobbing) But… (Deep breath)

Dr. Simon: Did they make any sexual advances toward you?

Betty Hill: No.

Dr. Simon: They didn't.

Betty Hill: No. I asked the leader……. I said, "Why did he stick the needle…Why did they stick the needle in my navel?"  And he said it was a pregnancy test. And I said, "Well, I don't know what they expected, but that was no pregnancy test here."  And he didn't say any more.

Dr. Simon: All right, we'll stop there now.  You'll be relieved, relaxed and at ease……. perfectly at ease. Comfortable and relaxed……You'll be comfortable and relaxed. When I wake you up you will not remember anything that has transpired here. You will not remember anything that has transpired here. Until I tell you to recall it. You are not to remember anything that has transpired here until I tell you to recall it. But it will not trouble you. You will not be worried about it. You will be comfortable and relaxed and at ease. No pains, no aches, no anxiety. Whenever I say, "Trance Betty" you'll go into a deep trance and at once obey all of my commands, and only when I say it, will you recall what has transpired here.  You will have no fear, no anxiety, comfortable and relaxed, no pains, no aches, no anxiety. You may wake now. (Pause)……. How do you feel?

Betty Hill: (Laughs) I woke, I wake, all the way awake. Wake or won't.

Dr. Simon: Now you will wake completely. (Betty makes several deep-breathing sounds) What happened?

Betty Hill: I had a long journey, but I……………….

Dr. Simon: Do you feel all right now?

Betty Hill: (Whispers) Yuh.

Dr. Simon: Talk to me. That's good.  All right, we'll continue next time.  I'll see you a week from today at the same time.  You say your head's fuzzy?

Betty Hill: Yuh, my head feels fuzzy. 

Dr. Simon's note: This interview was going rather smoothly until the areas of fear in the later part of the sighting of the flying object when she began to show very marked disturbance.  She wept. Tears were running down her cheeks. She squirmed in the chair. The same occurred with very marked agitation during the procedure that appeared to be taking place in the strange object………The apparent……. uh…..medical examination. Tears were running down Mrs. Hill's cheeks. Her nose was running, although she accepted a Kleenex quite readily. It was thought best to stop at this point even though she was in the quote "operating room" unquote because of the degree of agitation that had ensued. Both were given appointments to return a week from today.

To Be Continued...

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